Behlen's Rock Hard Table Top Varnish

[Dave Novak]

I've learned from other threads that BRH is now a poly, and at the risk of sounding a little over-dramatic, I'm devastated. I'm not extremely skilled at finishing, but I have improved tremendously by using BRH almost exclusively and really getting to know the product - how much to dilute it, how to build the perfect application pad, how much to apply at a time, when to sand, etc. What could possibly be behind Behlen's decision? I have to assume a large portion of their current customer base is at least considering switching to something else.

[Steve Schoene]

I suspect the reasons underlying the change can be found in sales figures. I guess they find that more distributors are not willing carry non-poly varnish because customers so frequently come in asking for the only thing they know--"poly". Poly is usually cheaper to make so it may have helped Behlen hold price points. It would be interesting have folks who have used the new product, particularly those who have previously used the old tried and true Rock Hard. For example you don't have to have much urethane resin to put poly on the label.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I assumed that the change was related to reducing VOCs as opposed to customer demand.

I believe that the new formula is "use" compatible with the old, but that the adhesion between coatings is mechanical not chemical (I am guessing that it was previously chemical). If I make an outlandish guess, I assume that with the new formula, it is more difficult to melt into the old coating, especially after it has had time to cure and toughing up.

[David Weaver]

I would assume it was environmental, also. George mentioned this in the neanderthal section a while ago, how hard it is to get a genuine varnish unless you go up to the high dollar specialty finishes...or cook your own.

[John TenEyck]

I would guess Behlen knows what they are doing. The old product was so well respected I seriously doubt they would replace it with anything less than something very equivalent in performance. Why not give the new formula a try before drawing any conclusions.

John

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I would guess Behlen knows what they are doing. The old product was so well respected I seriously doubt they would replace it with anything less than something very equivalent in performance. Why not give the new formula a try before drawing any conclusions.

Although I don't disagree, it is worth testing now on a piece of scrap. I will spend between $500 and $750 on wood for a desk that I am building. Also investing lots of time. Need to run a test before trying something new :-)

[Rich Engelhardt]

The old product was so well respected I seriously doubt they would replace it with anything less than something very equivalent in performance. Why not give the new formula a try before drawing any conclusions.

Behlen is owned by RPM....

RPM Industries is akin to Black and Decker in the tool world.

Look at what B&D did to old well respected names like Porter Cable and DeWalt...

[John TenEyck]

Although I don't disagree, it is worth testing now on a piece of scrap. I will spend between $500 and $750 on wood for a desk that I am building. Also investing lots of time. Need to run a test before trying something new :-)

Of course. I make samples with every project, even with finishes I've used many times.

John

[John TenEyck]

Behlen is owned by RPM....

RPM Industries is akin to Black and Decker in the tool world.

Look at what B&D did to old well respected names like Porter Cable and DeWalt...

You could be right, Rich, but maybe not. It seems that every time someone sees the word polyurethane they think the sky is falling. Many people forget or don't know that one of the most durable finishes ever produced, Dupont's Imron, is a polyurethane. There are higher and lower performing polyurethanes just like there are higher and lower performing traditional varnishes.

John

[Rich Engelhardt]

John,
Agreed about the polyurethane.
Polyurethane, by itself, is not really a definitive term because it comes in so many different forms - sort of like the term - wood.
There's high performance polyurethanes - such as Imron - and the whole family of moisture cured urethanes.

BTW - next time anyone visiting a Lowes would like to see a sample of just how hard and durable a "polyurethane" can really be, just look down at the floor.
That hard glossy finish over the concrete is a moisture cured urethane.

In todays market, terms like "poly" and "urethane" and "polyurethane" have become buzz words for marketing.
Retail buyers are conditioned to react to the term - thinking somehow by adding a "urethane resin" to a product, it improves it in some way.

30/35 years ago, the term "epoxy" was the popular buzz word. Everything (oil based enamels) had to be "epoxy fortified" in order to sell.

Anyhow - I'm getting side tracked.

My main concern is that RPM has fiddled with the product, either to make it cheaper for them to produce or to meet some VOC regulation - or - a combination of both.
RPM is on a tear to gobble up the specialty coatings such as Rustoleum, Zinsser, Dap, Behlen's.....etc. and my experiences recently with Zinsser, Dap and Rustoleum products haven't been real good.

[Stew Hagerty]

I discovered why Behlen made the switch to urethane. Apparently the manufacturer that produced their specific phenolic resin went out of business. They tried to find another manufacturer but were unsuccessful. So... they reluctantly made the switch. And they certainly are not happy about it.

Also, I discovered that VanDykes Restorers still has some pints of the old formula left.

[Howard Acheson]

>>>> There's high performance polyurethanes - such as Imron - and the whole family of moisture cured urethanes.

But they are hardly relevant to this discussion. These are multi-part finishes that should only be use by professionals. They are very dangerous. When we used to apply Imron to boats a forced fresh air respirator and disposable clothing were required.

While I am not a fan of urethane finishes for most applications, they are appropriate where scratch resistance and heat toleration are required.

[Karl Card]

I am not 100 percent sure about BRH but I know the paint industry has been hit hard in a few states concerning VOC. Here in Indiana we cannot sell a gallon of oil base paint but we can still sell a squart. I look for that to change also but would hate to say when. it is troublesome though that our customers can drive 10 minutes out of the way to Kentucky and buy oil base paints with no problem as of yet.

[Stew Hagerty]

>>>> There's high performance polyurethanes - such as Imron - and the whole family of moisture cured urethanes.

But they are hardly relevant to this discussion. These are multi-part finishes that should only be use by professionals. They are very dangerous. When we used to apply Imron to boats a forced fresh air respirator and disposable clothing were required.

While I am not a fan of urethane finishes for most applications, they are appropriate where scratch resistance and heat toleration are required.

I used to have a 1968 Z28 that I painted with Black Imron. It was very loud, very fast, and it always looked wet. I really miss that car sometimes.

This was taken circa 1986 with my brother & I showing how cool we were.
My 1968 Z28.jpg