Buying a square: Starrett or 1281?

[Gary Oney]

I have decided to break down and buy a quality square, as my cheap big-box combination square, which seemed close enough when I bought it, has gotten out of alignment, which I assume was wear on the sliding mechanism. My primary needs are a simple, reliable 90 degree square angle and I want something longer than a 6" try square. I've narrowed my choices to the Starrett C11h-12-4r and the Woodpeckers 1281, as both have a good reputation for quality & squareness, both have clear and accurate measurements, and both are about the same price.

I lean toward the 1281 because I do not need the flexibility of a combination square (90 degrees reliability is 99.9% of my intended purpose) and Woodpeckers offers a lifetime guarantee for squareness. However, I waffle on my decision since the Starrett is steel versus the 1281's aluminum construction, and I know the square will drop on the concrete someday. On the other hand, I worry about wear on the sliding mechanism of the Starrett causing it to lose squareness in time, and I've been told it is very expensive to recalibrate.

Any thoughts appreciated that would push me over the top either way.

[Dave Novak]

I love my 1281, and it just happens to be on sale right now.

[george wilson]

I only recommend solid,fixed blades for squares. Starrett makes all kinds of squares of all types. I have fixed blade Starretts from 2" to 24" blade length. I don't like aluminum. Too easy to damage.

[glenn bradley]

If you only need a square, go fixed. If you also use it, as I do, for scribing lines in from a reference face, checking or setting depths and heights, transferring unknown measurements, etc. get a combo.

[David Weaver]

Also not a fan of the aluminum blades. Buddy of mine had a "Certified" aluiminum square, nice and big, good for woodworking, something like 8 or 10 inch blade on it, and compared to a certified starrett fixed square it was not nearly as close to square as we thought it was. In fast, it was not as close to square as a shop made wooden square would be even if it moved due to a change in climate.

The best way to go about squares is to know someone who has a good certified machinist square and then test used or imported squares against theirs. Then you can end up with 20 good squares for the price of their one.

I have, like george (george has everything), one of the enormous starretts ("Brutus"). Brutus is like the final judge of all of my cheap squares big and small, and brutus was checked against a friends brand new certified square to be sure brutus hadn't been damaged (brutus cost me $19 on ebay, courtesy of a deceased collector of decomissioned navy and government contractor tools). I don't care to have that kind of accuracy intentionally, especially in a square that no normal person could actually pick up with one hand and use, but it is nice to have and it opens up a world of easy jig making and fine tuning of cheap steel framing squares.

http://www.starrett.com/metrology/pr...-Squares/20-24

Starrett has lightened the beam a little bit since brutus was made, and I am by no means advocating that anyone every spend even a fraction of this amount, but do look for old fixed tools that don't have any dents, etc.

[Casey Gooding]

You can't go wrong with Starrett. They can be had on the bay for a fraction of new.

[Greg R Bradley]

Based upon your intended use, the 1281 fits your needs. For general 90 degree use, the 1281 is very nice to use since it will sit in place on the work unlike the others.

Let me put it this way: I have Starrett and PEC 4" and 6" double squares and 6", 12", and 18" combination squares. I have a Starrett 20-12 and have brought home Starrett 20-18 and the $1500 20-24 mentioned by David. Even having those, I went out and paid money for a 1281.

I do think you will also want an adjustable double or combination square for the reasons outlined by my brother above. I would buy a small adjustable double or combination square for those needs. There are some incredible deals on PEC seconds from Harry Epstein. Here is the deal of the year: http://store.harryepstein.com/cp/Pro...g/7104-4R.html
For $3 more you can have a 6" or buy both in case you want to "save" two depth/distance settings.
If you want the traditional 2 piece combination then buy this http://store.harryepstein.com/cp/Pro...g/7131-4R.html instead of the $100 Starrett from the usual sources. You usually have to look hard to find why they call it a second and the name or model being ground on won't hurt its function.

I prefer granite master reference squares or a granite surface plate to the Starrett 20 series reference since a 20-24 is really a weapon that can hurt you or your work pretty easily. David was not kidding about being unable to pick one up with one hand and they are SHARP!

There is a real difference between the tools for precision metal work and what is nice to use on wood as I continue to learn.

[David Weaver]

Thanks for the links Greg!!! I've got a favorite old starrett that's limping now because it's been dropped and partially broken, this is perfect timing.

you're not kidding about the 20-24 dinging work, it will do a lot of damage in a second. Drawing blood is inevitable at some point, too, but it makes a shoot board the most trivial project in the world.

[Gary Oney]

Wow, thanks to all of you for all the great advice. Very appreciated!

I think you guys have convinced me on the wisdom for a "reference square". I'm probably going to buy the 1281 for that purpose, then try to find a good fixed steel square to take over that function, freeing up the 1281 for daily use. Meanwhile, I followed Greg's advice (thank you) and placed an order for the PEC 4" & 6" double squares, as well as the 12" combo square from Mr. Epstein, that I can immediately put to work for everyday use.

This will be great going from one poor, out-of-square combo to a nice assortment of good squares, and I can add some used engineer's squares with more confidence once I have a reference square.

[Greg R Bradley]

I probably should have added one more link. If you buy the 1281 from Carbide Processors and use the discount code "creekers" you will get an additional 10% off the current sale price of $89.99. You will also get a free tool with purchase. You will also support a Sawmillcreek sponsor and deal with another company with great tools and customer service.

Links:
http://www.carbideprocessors.com/pre...peckers-1281r/
http://www.carbideprocessors.com/Fre...h-Every-Order/

[george wilson]

I have some squares made by Chris Vesper in Australia. They are very well made and accurate. Probably cost as much as a Starrett,but good squares.

[Christian Castillo]

My most used square is a starrett 6" combination square but you're about to make me go get a Vesper square George , I can always say: " George Wilson has a few and look how great he is!" .

I am by no means implying that Vesper squares will make me 1/100th as good as George, I just need some more ammo for justifying the purchase.

[george wilson]

Most of the wooden musical instruments I have posted here ,and other 18th.C. style items,were made using a wooden square I made at work. I NOW have all kinds of machinist's squares which I use in machine shop work,and for setting up wood working machines. Since they are there,I just also am likely to pick one up and use it for wood working,too. The real big steel squares,like David said,are quite heavy,and dangerous to use on wood projects lest you ding the wood with the heavy square.

The little 6" Starrett steel square is handy for wood working,as are the Vesper squares in 6",8",and smaller sizes. If they have grads,they are always metric,though. I have a small Vesper that has metric grads.

If you must have a combination square,buy the Starrett that has the HARDENED head. It will stay truer longer. I don't think any adjustable square is as accurate as a solid steel one,though. I check my squares these days with granite masters,but in the old days,I just checked them by scribing a line,flipping the square and re checking,like everyone else does.

[glenn bradley]

Thanks for the links Greg!!!

Thanks for the link!?! Thanks for the link!?! My brother just cost me $60. Thanks for the link he says .

[Derek Cohen]

.. and I want something longer than a 6" try square.

Hi Gary

My two user squares are 4" (Chris Vesper) and 8" (Colen Clenton) in length. The 4" gets most use for joinery. Prior to the 4", my preference was for a Starrett 6" double square. I'm not suggesting you purchase these - they are pricey - just that these are the sizes I find best.

I do have a couple of 12"/300mm Starrett combo squares, but they only get used on machinery. Combo squares are very versatile - useful as a depth gage and transferring measurements. I have one of Chris Vesper's 2 3/4" versions and recently picked up a 4" Moore and Wright.

Regards from Perth

Derek