Outside Cyclone - Attach to wall or separate shed?

[Bob Borzelleri]

The outside of the back wall of my shop is about 15 feet high to the inside ceiling, which is to say that the slope from front to back of the building has the floor at about my armpits if I am standing at the back wall at grade level.

The grade continues to drop off on down the hill so I had thought about hanging the cyclone on a ledger board on the outside wall and building an enclosure around it with a wall mounted platform for the drum. Given that the intake can enter the building below floor level and the exhaust needs to be well above the floor (since I would like to have the filter in the shop and it is quite tall), the outer "wall hanging" option seems to be getting more and more complicated.

That leads me to wonder about a separate shed, but the slope pretty much dictates that it be relatively close (1-2 ft.) to the shop wall. Perhaps the added distance from the outer wall would give me room to route the exhaust duct for the filter up and back into the shop with enough height for the filter to hang clear of the floor of the shop. Then again, the image of an out building that is 12-24" away from another building is not all that appealing.

I think that pictures would make this much more clear, but it's pouring outside as I write this note and I sold my Nikonos camera years ago.

Any thoughts?

...Bob

[Jim Becker]

Bob...key thing is that you need to accomodate a "straight shot" into the inlet for a few feet for best performance, whether you do the shed or attach directly to the outside of the building. That's going to affect your positioning as well as dictate the location of your building entrance relative to the cyclone itself. The vertical component is not important...gravity doesn't really apply in this application since you're moving air which in turn moves material. But you still need to make for an efficient layout. Frankly, this is yet another chalk mark against under-floor ducting, IMHO. You'd find your situation much more manageable if you did overhead.

What you might need to do is offset the cyclone mounting several feet laterally from where you want to enter under the floor so you can come up the wall diagonally and transisiton to horizontal into your inlet after a few feet of straight pipe. However, judging from the pictures of the Grizzly unit you ordered, the inlet of the cyclone isn't horizontal...it's more like the Pentz design (!) and enters the cylinder on a downward angle. That futher complicates your situation.

BTW, you can get a nice, servicable digital camera for a few hundred these days that is great for documenting in forums. Heck, even a camera phone will help with that, despite the granularity!

[Bob Borzelleri]

Hi Jim...

I actually do have a digital camera and took a shot of the back of the building prior to posting the note, but the downpour was pretty dramatic and the resultant photo looked like it came from an underwater documentary on the architechture of Atlantis. I'll give it a shot again today, but the rain continues.

Assuming that I understand your point correctly, it may be that the height of the raised floor is sufficient to mount the intake low enough on the outer wall to allow a straight shot (allowing for a slight correction for the inlet angle) under the floor joists for the length of the primary run. At that point, my next issue would seem to be how to handle the exhaust (given the depletion of heated air from the building if the filter stays in the outside enclosure). At the moment, I am kicking around using a filtered opening between the enclosure and the shop which would be toward the ceiling (roof) of the outside enclosure and would appear at about floor level in the shop.

A photo will follow sometime today and perhaps all this will make somewhat beter sense. Thanks.

BTW, I went back and looked at the inlet pipe on the Grizzly. While the inlet pipe connects to a downward sloping intake ramp, it appears that the actual pipe opening is adjusted to be perpendicular to a horizontal duct run.

...Bob

[Jim Becker]

Next time, use an underwater camera...

If you use any form of heating that has a flame...you really must bring that exhaust back into your shop for safety reasons.

I just looked at the picture of the Grizz again...you're correct. They did angle the actual inlet back to horizontal. Strange since that could create turbulence. Both Oneida and Mr. Pentz (who's design the Grizz strangely resembles...) prefer a straight shot into the system without any last minute bends. It appears that Grizz decided differently.

[Bill Lewis]

Next time, use an underwater camera...

Jim, He can't, he sold it! See below

...but it's pouring outside as I write this note and I sold my Nikonos camera years ago...

[Bob Borzelleri]

OK, total, if not temporary change in plans. Even though I made it a point to build the shop on a raised foundation in order to be able to run DC ductwork under the floor, I have come to the conclusion that this whole "getting the shop finished" thing has dragged on far too long and the new cyclone will start out living in the shop with pipes going up rather than down.

Main reason is pretty much a restatement of the "this is taking too long" thing I mentioned above and the need to get everything set back up and accessable without having to move 1/2 ton of metal every time I want to use a tool (I have been wiring, insulating, sheathing and finish paneling the walls for a significant part of my recent lifetime).

So, this weekend, the walls get finished, the ductwork gets designed and I set up the landing spot for the Grizzly which I expect to have humming in two weeks. If I opted for the underfloor arrangement with the attached shed and the like, I'd still be messing around this time next month or much later).

Once the setup is in and performing, I'll report on how the Grizzly fits in from delivery to sucking chips and dust. Sometime later down the road, I might still replumb for underfloor which I think will be a lot easier to change to than if I was going from under to overhead. But for now, things are looking UP.

Thanks to Jim for hanging on to this point long enough for me to embrace it.

...Bob

[Jim Becker]

Just remember, Bob...DC's don't "suck". They move air in high volume at low pressure. (Unlike a vacuum cleaner/shop vac which moves little air at high pressure) The moving air transports the material as long as it's moving fast enough and with enough volume.

[Bob Borzelleri]

Just remember, Bob...DC's don't "suck". They move air in high volume at low pressure. (Unlike a vacuum cleaner/shop vac which moves little air at high pressure) The moving air transports the material as long as it's moving fast enough and with enough volume.

Hmmm...

Since air movement seem to occur through changes in relative pressure, and being either drawn or pushed, I'm wondering why both DCs and shop vacs wouldn't qualify as "sucking" machines? Wouldn't it be fair to say that they suck air and the dust and chips go along for the ride?


...Bob

[Jim Becker]

Ok, in the strictest sense, you could say there is suction, but it's at such low pressure that volume and velocity become the prime factors. That's why CFM is so important. Yes, it's measured at a particular SP (static pressure), but that pressure is very low...such as 4" of water. A shop vac or similar machine has static pressures up toward 100" of water...there you have suction from such a huge pressure drop while the volume of air moving remains relatively low. This is the overriding difference between dust collection systems and vacuum cleaners/shop vacs.