Looking for an economical laser engraver to be used in a high school technology class

[Dave Sheldrake]

but I would be nervous about putting that nice of a machine in a high school environment for sure.

A new $40k laser is a lot less than a wrongful death suit because a student wanted to know what 45,000 volts feels like. Local supplied Chinese are good if they are purchased from somebody like Ray Scott, direct imports or unknown local sellers are a law suit waiting to happen.
Take a look at the direct vent slots cut into many direct machines....that puts them firmly in class IV rather than the Class II of a normal cabinet machine. A class IV laser and school kids? may as well just let them play in the local traffic at rest periods.

cheers

Dave

[Matt McCoy]

Dave, I don't disagree with you, but do you think it would be any more dangerous than tools typically found in schools like table saws, band saws, routers, nail guns, welding equipment, car lifts, etc.?

Also, I just noticed you are fixing-up a pretty old house. I hope you will share pics!

[Bill George]

Thanks for the information about the wattage output. I had no idea how hte wattages compared in real world cutting and engraving. I have tried to stay in the Universal and epilog market, but their price tags are way over the current educational budget we have to follow these days. Are the glass tubes normally enclosed in a separate part of the cabinet or are they right in the open "machining" section. I've seen the Universal and Epilog machines in action at educational trade shows... but I've always been told to stay away from the imported lasers because they are nowhere close in performance and precision to the US models.

Anyone hear of or own a Boss Laser?

Thanks for the input... please feel free to comment both pros and con on the laser companies mentioned above.

However, due to budget, a new imported model might compare similar to a 10year old American model.

Before I retired I was teaching at a community college near where I live. I made it a point to contact manufactures reps in our area to let them know I was looking for equipment donations. New, used or whatever I would consider. The non working stuff was taken apart and used for teaching moments on how things worked. By the time 12 years had passed I was running out of room to keep stuff! It would be nice to have a USA made machine used, demo whatever as long as it worked and the manufacture was willing to provide info that could be copied and used in the class room for teaching. Same as DVD's and video training ads. It also would be nice to have a good brand Chinese machine, because they will encounter those in the field.

I was teaching HVAC/R, and came from a commercial background in it and electrical controls.

PS Some High School shop classes have PlasmaCAM CNC plasma cutters and CNC milling machines. There are ads in the newspapers all the time for skilled trades persons, as CNC machinists and more. The high schools assumed everyone was going to college and dismantled their shop classes. Wrong. Manufacturing is coming back to the US and we need skilled people to operate the equipment.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Also, I just noticed you are fixing-up a pretty old house. I hope you will share pics!

Hiya Matt

house.jpg

On the lasers, Chinese are safe and reliable IF they are prepped by a reputable company like HPC here in the Uk or Ray Scott at Rabbit over in the US. Outside of that they can be a nightmare

cheers

Dave

[John Bion]

Also, I just noticed you are fixing-up a pretty old house. I hope you will share pics!

it is irresistible to ask whether Dave forgot the exponential factor regarding expense and fixing up old houses?

I guess part of the problem with a Chinese laser machine in a school setting is the appearance of safety - which is sometimes more dangerous than the readily apparent danger of a sharp blade.

Cheers John

[Dave Sheldrake]

Pretty much John

[Bill Stearns]

MATT -
I was just asking (not so much worrying) 'bout whether school shops regularly engrave signs, awards 'n plaques - up 'n above for training and educational purposes? 'Stead of schools purchasing these items from local engraving shops, like mine. And, if anyone knew, for sure, this was happening to any real degree? Suppose I could simply contact a shop-teacher and ask, uh? Not the end-of-the-world. Just feel that, while I like to understand why I'm making sales, I also feel it's important that I understand why I am not. (why, while some school teams 'n groups turn to me, so many others aren't?) Ultimately, it's of far greater importance that our students are being well-trained, today, than that I make 'few more sales. (thanks for the attitude adjustment!)

Bill

[Clark Pace]

Chinese made, but US supported. $3295. also you might ask. I'm sure some companies have a discount for schools. also you might not have to pay tax if it is for a school. Some things to think about.

http://www.hurricanelasers.net/storm


.net NOT .com .com is fslaser owned.

[Dan Hintz]

Chinese made, but US supported. $3295. also you might ask. I'm sure some companies have a discount for schools. also you might not have to pay tax if it is for a school. Some things to think about.

hurricanelasers


.net NOT .com .com is fslaser owned.

I have never recommended fslaser, but after some people got bit recently with no delivery of their Hurricane, I can't recommend them, either.

[Scott Shepherd]

I don't get the "hurricane laser" thing, naming models after hurricanes. Hurricanes that killed a lot of people. They have a Katrina model as well. Seems like a HORRIBLE marketing decision. I see several of their models than wiped out out areas over my lifetime and took lives. Seems like they could do a MUCH better jobs with names than that line of thinking.

[Dave Sheldrake]

I dunno so much Scotty, I was thinking of naming my next game accessory series "Dahmer" and "Berkowitz" (doh!!)

For Chinese made / American supplied machines it's Ray Scott every time, outside of being a very knowledgeable chap he's a real nice guy with it that LOVES his work....and it shows in the extra mile he goes for anybody he deals with. When I have needed bits on the hop that Chris at HPC didn't have to hand Ray has gotten them to me in a couple of days from the other side of the big pond.

Can't recommend him highly enough to be honest.

cheers

Dave

[Matt McCoy]

Dave: Real cool. Good luck with your renovation.

Bill: No offense meant and no attitude adjustment intended.

Scott: I agree. The name Hurricane is innocuous enough, but probably poor taste to name models after devastating storms where many lives and much property were lost.

What recommended adjustments would need to be made to make Chinese lasers classroom-ready?

BTW: Just saw a post on another forum that there might be new trouble for Hurricane Laser. If anyone is interested in its products, you might want to consider due diligence.

[David Somers]

Matt,

I am just taking a stab at what might be some good precautions to take. I have been looking hard at getting a Chinese laser and know I will do it once I have all my ducks in a row. Just a matter of when. But keep in mind I don't have one in hand as I give you these suggestions. Dave Sheldrake might be an excellent source for thoughts on Chinese Lasers. As would Rodney? And lastly, A few folks have mentioned Rabbit Laser USA and Ray? He is likely who I will purchase through. I have been nibbling around the edges of lots of companies as I worked on this and he seems to be a few notches above everyone else. Just my personal take on this.

Anyway.....For a school environment. I would physically secure the machine by making sure there is a power lock on it. I noticed some Chinese machines don't have them. And obviously it should have a large, well placed panic shutoff button.

You want to be sure it has a functional lid and door interlocks so the lid can't be opened without shutting off the beam. Those are easily overridden with a magnet and I am afraid I don't know how to safeguard against that, but you at least want that interlock in place and functioning.

I would add, or be sure the door that exposes the tube comes with keyed locks on it so the tube cannot be exposed. Dave Sheldrake might suggest some other places that should be secured as well.

You might ask Scott (Steve) Shepard if he would share some of his "fire' photos with you along with any fire tales for use when you impress on the kids the need to be right with the machine and paying atention the entire time it is running. Others likely have them too. There was a thread by Scott that covered just this issue if you want to search for it. And be sure you have appropriate extinguishers by the machine. It might also be worth showing them what a fire looks like from Acrylic, which can be difficult to see. The best comparison I could make is that it is like flame from an alcohol burner? Can anyone out there make a better comparison? The important point is it is not likely to be a bright yellow, highly visible flame. And go over how they avoid flaming in the first place. Get them hooked on best practices. You might also think about how directly they will be supervised during a run? In some ways, the risk of flame is sort of comparable to the risk of injury from a sharp saw; table saw, band saw, etc. Might be worth examining how the folks teaching those skills are approaching those risks and see if they can be applied to the laser. A good, certified safety professional might also be willing to look at the setup and make suggestions.

I might also make sure the limit switches in the device are working to protect the head as it flies around with the gantries.

Perhaps folks here can suggest some "best practices" that you can get the class to follow that would help minimize risk to the kids, and risk to the machine? That could range from operating advice to design advice as they prep their files on whatever software you are going to use.

And lastly, you might look around town or in neighboring cities and see if there are any maker shops near you. They will likely have a laser in their shop. And they are very used to working with newbies and may be able to help you with advice on how to protect the users and your machine, yet get them up to operating speed fairly quickly and safely. If you are not familiar with maker shops check around nearby colleges and universities. The "maker" culture tends to have lots of adherents in those areas and the first shops in a community often crop up near those schools. Another hot spot for them are areas where young professionals live. Folks who are living in apartments and have no shop space of their own. In Seattle on such area is around all the tech and biotech industries around the Lake Union area. Lots of young folks living in apartments with no shop space of their own, but a real desire to learn and try out ideas.

I love to see this kind of thing done in schools. Too many schools have taken to trying to save money by scrapping things like "industrial arts" and music and even things like sewing and cooking and basic home economics. They may not be at the heart of the academic core, but they are certainly VERY worthwhile in terms of helping kids prepare for life beyond the school. The shop and home ec classes I had in Junior High and High School did a lot for me in terms of giving me confidence to tackle anything I wanted, and gave me some exposure to stuff I might never have considered otherwise. My love of woodturning today came from High School, though I was in my early 40's before I was able to act on it. This type of exposure has benefits that last through your life.

Sorry...preaching to the choir I think! But I do feel strongly about this and wish you all the best in this adventure!!!!

Dave

[Dave Sheldrake]

Just read the same Matt and doesn't look good

Classroom ready..in no particular order that spring to mind.

1: No direct line of sight to any part of the beam focussed or otherwise

2: Radiation warning stickers where required

3: Proper and coded earthing to all metallic parts

4: Supplied correct OD glasses to all users in the vicinity

5: Lockable power switch to main machine

6: Earthing of moving metal doors on machine cabinet (very few are as supplied)

7: Interlocks that cannot easily be bypassed to cabinet lid to prevent firing of laser when lid open

8: Locking section to tube mounting area with keys stored securely

9: Fire suppression as required (internally in or by the machine)

cheers

Dave

Just saw Dave's post, he's got it covered

[Matt McCoy]

Except #4, do the popular non-Chinese brands meet this criteria?

Would you recommend the same for a CNC or similar equipment or power tools in a classroom environment?

Thanks.