Radial arm saw injuries

[Matt Marsh]

Matt - Those were severe accidents. I'm wondering how the guy got the splinter in his eye as you'd think that cut off wood would be going the other direction (unless he was ripping). And Joe, that's scary that the saw's arm moved left with your step-dad's accident. I didn't think that would happen if the arm was locked.

A question for both of you (or anyone else, for that matter): Lets do the same question but change it a bit - How many people do you know that have been injured by table saws?

Bill

Bill, I know of lots of accidents with table saws also, too many to count really, but only one real serious one that actually resulted in death of the user. I can't think of a single one that didn't involve kickback. The death was about 10-15 years back here in the Bemidji Minnesota area of a local cabinet maker. The piece kicking back struck him in the stomach/groin area, causing him to bend forward violently, resulting in the guy hitting his head on the table, which caused a brain hemorrhage.

[Charlie Velasquez]

Bill.

I am almost positive the arm was locked when the accident happened. That saw was only ever used for 90 degree cuts.

What size motor was on that? It must have been one of the giant behemoth commercial saws to have enough power to bend a cast iron arm. I don't think an old craftsman would have enough juice to do that.

I have been using a RAS as my primary saw for about 35 years now.
The first few years I experienced the saw try to climb a number of times. Then, I got a copy of Jon Eakes's "Fine Tuning Your Radial Arm Saw". I was amazed at the difference a well tuned saw and sharp, high quality, low angle hook blade makes.
I have not experienced any surprises since then, neither crosscutting nor ripping.

But, even when my saw tried to climb in my "learning years", I never felt threatened. The saw was confined to one path by a cast iron arm and steel yoke. As long as I didn't do something crazy, even if it started to self feed, the worst that happened is the motor would stall and trip a breaker.

Short of something like Joe's stepdad's accident, I can not visualize how one gets injured on a crosscut by a RAS. You are not pushing your body or hands towards the blade as you would as you feed wood on a table saw.

[Ronald Blue]

I guess everyone has "war" stories to tell. I think the bottom line is that any saw is capable of serious damage and most incidents were due to carelessness. I have used radial arm saws most of my adult life and have owned one for 27 years. I have cut a lot of boards and even some aluminum and only once did I even have a scary moment. It was when I was ripping and it flung a piece out against the garage wall. Anyone who has a "climb" cut accident had their hand in the line of fire almost without exception. I am sure that will rankle someone but difficult to dispute. The blade is following a defined path and doesn't deviate from it.

[Bill Geibe]

I agree with Ron and wonder what the responses would be like if the question were about known accidents with table saws. Between kickbacks and blade injuries, I would think there would be many more responses.

Ron said "Anyone who has a "climb" cut accident had their hand in the line of fire almost without exception." and I agree. An exception may be Joe's story about his step-dad having the saw climb-cut and the arm swing left and got his hand. I wonder in that case if the arm was properly locked - though I imaging some serious forces are involved in an incident like that. I've had my saw try to climb and then dig into the stock and stall the motor. I always keep away from the blade path so the only damage in that incident was to my underwear. Since then I have switched to a negative hook angle blade and haven't had any problems like that.

Matt mentioned a fellow who had a splinter fly up from a RAS and cause eye damage. I really can't figure how this could have happened (the direction that the blade is rotating is away from you) unless he was ripping with the saw, and even then it would be a freak accident.

I use my RAS for crosscuts all the time. It's especially good for cutting rough lumber to length before milling. A RAS isn't fussy if the stock is cupped or twisted a bit.

Bill

[Matt Marsh]

Matt mentioned a fellow who had a splinter fly up from a RAS and cause eye damage. I really can't figure how this could have happened (the direction that the blade is rotating is away from you) unless he was ripping with the saw, and even then it would be a freak accident.

This happened when I was in high school back around 1973-74, so it's been awhile. He was assisting/instructing a fellow student, so he may not even have been the one operating the saw. We did use it occasionally for ripping, but I honestly cannot remember what operation was being performed. I don't even remember the brand of the saw, but it was a big and heavy one. I know it wasn't a Craftsman.

[Floyd Mah]

RAS are dangerous for several reasons and I've had my share of near misses. Imagine operating a cutting machine and just as it engages your workpiece, an object larger than a bowling ball obstructs your view of the cut and your hand. Wait a second, that's the saw. I had a big dent in my garage door when attempting to rip a board and it took off. Dodged a missile that time. The last incident was totally my fault, so I can't blame it completely on the radial arm saw, but since this is the sawmillcreek, it's a good place to confess acts of stupidity. I accidentally cut across a chisel. Wow, never knew how it got there, but it was vivid testimony to the need to have an uncluttered workspace. I must have literally dodged a bullet, because I heard a "bang" and there was a piece of metal flying through the air. Anyway, it's good to have luck when using some of the power tools, but especially so when using a radial arm saw.

[John TenEyck]

Relying on luck to avoid an accident will certainly result in having one. It is the thoughtful consideration of what could go wrong and taking steps to minimize the danger to both you and your equipment if something does that prevents 99% of accidents.

John

[John Piwaron]

RAS cut the end of one of my fingers. One of the 10" Sears models. Ripping.

OTOH, haven't had any trouble at all with any TS I've had.

[Charlie Velasquez]

...... Imagine operating a cutting machine and just as it engages your workpiece, an object larger than a bowling ball obstructs your view of the cut and your hand. Wait a second, that's the saw.

Again, I can't visualize this. If your stick is left of the blade then you are standing left of the blade, with your right shoulder behind the yoke, your head left of the blade, and your left hand holding your stick a safe distance from the path of the blade. All are clearly in sight. Right side means pulling the yoke with your left hand and as before.

. . . I had a big dent in my garage door when attempting to rip a board and it took off. Dodged a missile that time.

Ripping always requires care. We need to remeber we are cutting something that was alive and is as unique as any other living thing. Internal stress, twists, checks, moisture are all characteristics that affect how a board reacts when assaulted by a blade.
But we can hedge our bet. Checking heel and toe alignment, having a FLAT table that is parallel to the arm and making sure your column to arm has no play are paramount to increasing the safety of ripping. Even then, technique is important. Using a pushboard instead of a pushstick to provide balanced force on both sides of the blade, holddowns (featherboards, board buddies et al.), dedicated ripping fence and such all help.

In the last few years I can count on one finger (I still have all ten) the times a board tried to grab the blade. That was a pretty wet piece of treated lumber.

RAS are dangerous for several reasons...

All tools have a degree of danger. I think the #1 dangerous thing about the RAS is it has so many moveable parts that must be adjusted to perform as a safe, precision tool. Missing even one adjustment will compromise its effectiveness.

[ray hampton]

i think the RAS is far more dangerous than the table saw. I have had both for decades.
A stick of dynamite versus a fire cracker, which would you put lit in your pocket? Safe use of equipment is important regardless of the percentages or frequecies of injuries.

a stick of dynamite without the fuse, if fuse are included then the firecracker

[Floyd Mah]

The point is that to safely operate the RAS, you must stand with your center of gravity directly in front of the yoke. When you crane your neck around to peek at the cut, you are no longer as optimally aligned as when you first align your blade and workpiece visually. Also to maximally direct your forces and to oppose the risk of the saw climbing across the workpiece, you need to extend your right arm as much as possible. That literally puts you at arms' length away. So, yes, give it a try and see if you are safely in a position to control the saw, or are you going to give the saw a chance to get out of control.

As for the rip, I carefully planned and aligned everything, but when you are relying on everything to be properly set up to work, anything can go wrong. Visualize this: The saw is on an arm that is almost two feet long. Tell me that your saw doesn't deflect in the slightest if you exert a small downward force. Tell me that the lever arm doesn't oscillate once you start cutting. Remember, when you are ripping, your hands are occupied with controlling the board. You are no longer dampening the yoke's movement with your body mass via your arm. What's the chance of the blade not remaining parallel to the fence if things start to vibrate during the cutting process? Tell me how to keep the board from lifting while I am trying to feed it into a blade that is trying to throw the board up, as well as back at the force I am exerting to advance the board. Show me a diagram of your push stick or pushboard. I bet there are flaws in your technique that put you in danger for at least part of the cut. Show me how you fit feather boards or hold downs to the RAS table to make it a safe process (ripping). I think those who routinely use a RAS to rip lumber are deluding themselves and eventually will have an accident or near miss. RAS are good for crosscutting long boards. Period. Get a table saw for ripping and use all the safety devices.

It's pretty smug of those of you who think that you can outsmart the RAS. As you can read here, there are many fingers and other body parts that are lost to RAS's. Mostly by people who didn't operate the saw with the intention of losing their fingers, limbs or sight. So, yes, I say it's good to be lucky. Bad things will happen to people operating RAS's because of the nature of the machine's design, not because of their intelligence. By the way, I didn't say that you should rely on luck to operate any type of power tool. I did say that it is good to be lucky when sometimes things don't turn out as planned. Sometimes it's just lucky to lose only one finger rather than a hand or your life. We have a saying in the medical field that I hear sometimes: "It's better to be lucky than smart."

[John McClanahan]

Again, I can't visualize this. If your stick is left of the blade then you are standing left of the blade, with your right shoulder behind the yoke, your head left of the blade, and your left hand holding your stick a safe distance from the path of the blade. All are clearly in sight. Right side means pulling the yoke with your left hand and as before.


Ripping always requires care. We need to remeber we are cutting something that was alive and is as unique as any other living thing. Internal stress, twists, checks, moisture are all characteristics that affect how a board reacts when assaulted by a blade.
But we can hedge our bet. Checking heel and toe alignment, having a FLAT table that is parallel to the arm and making sure your column to arm has no play are paramount to increasing the safety of ripping. Even then, technique is important. Using a pushboard instead of a pushstick to provide balanced force on both sides of the blade, holddowns (featherboards, board buddies et al.), dedicated ripping fence and such all help.

In the last few years I can count on one finger (I still have all ten) the times a board tried to grab the blade. That was a pretty wet piece of treated lumber.


All tools have a degree of danger. I think the #1 dangerous thing about the RAS is it has so many moveable parts that must be adjusted to perform as a safe, precision tool. Missing even one adjustment will compromise its effectiveness.

Charlie, you said what I was thinking.

John

[John McClanahan]

If the blade guard is adjusted (tipped forward) for ripping, the blade cannot pick the board up from the table.

John

[Myk Rian]

QUESTION: Do you know of anyone who has been injured using a radial arm saw???

No. Table saw, yes.

[Ronald Blue]

I agree with you Charlie completely. People get hurt on Miter saws as well and they are the same concept. Use a little common sense in the operation and setup. If the piece is to small to hold securely then you probably shouldn't make the cut.