Knot in table top - need newbie type help

[Tony Wilkins]

Got to the board that I was going to use for the last third to my tabletop on my little shaker side table. Daggnabbit it's got three small knots in it. My wife said she didn't mind but I'm wondering if it's going to give me problems. Will it?

My other option would be hand resawing in half the 8/4 I got to get the legs out of.

TIA,
Tiny

[Adam Cruea]

Problems in planing, gluing, or finishing?

How far do the knots go? If they're through-and-through, when shrinkage occurs, you could have a hole in your table.

Expect that when planing, the grain around the knot will not be kind and may go every-which-way-but-straight. You'll also probably chew up your plane blade pretty well.

[Tony Wilkins]

Problems in planing, gluing, or finishing?

How far do the knots go? If they're through-and-through, when shrinkage occurs, you could have a hole in your table.

Expect that when planing, the grain around the knot will not be kind and may go every-which-way-but-straight. You'll also probably chew up your plane blade pretty well.

Pretty much what I was expecting. Don't think they are all the way through but they are on the side I need up.

[steven c newman]

leave the knotsSDC14795.jpgsometimes they add to the piece.

[Tony Wilkins]

My piece is walnut. How hard will the knots be on my planes?

[Sam Stephens]

small tight knots i don't worry about. After all, it is wood. If the knots have any cracks or are loose, I fill with epoxy which can be colored -usually black- w/ dye, coffee grounds, etc. It really just depends on the overall design and wood type.

[george wilson]

Some regard knots as figure. We have an 18th.C. Kirkman harpsichord lathe in the Governor's Mansion in Williamsburg that has a 2" knot in the lid.

[Steve Friedman]

My piece is walnut. How hard will the knots be on my planes?

Knots won't affect your planes at all, but the blades may need sharpening when you're done.

Seriously, Sam's right. It's wood. Wood has knots. they add character. Just get the blades super sharp and go at it. If the knots are loose, or have voids in them, epoxy works.

Steve

[Kees Heiden]

Another vote for keeping the knots. I love knots. The grain is also always more interesting around them.

Get your plane blade very sharp. The knots are harder then the rest of the wood. And a sharp blade helps against tearout. Set the chipbreaker really really really close to the edge. The blade should be barely visible. That's a great help against tearout too.

[Jim Matthews]

I plane knots to the same surface depth as the surrounding clear grain.

Most of the knots I encounter are in cherry, and they alternate grain direction.
To manage them, I lean on a scraper. If there are voids, I fill them with slow setting epoxy tinted either black or with dust from the adjoining section.

If the knot doesn't go all the way through, it should be stable.
If it goes through (the start of a branch) it will eventually fall out.

Those I bore out and replace with a through dowel.

[Bryan Schwerer]

I vote for stabilize and leave. I've felt the same thing before with knots. Everything stands out on bare wood. It's amazing what a little finish will do to tone it down and give it character.

[Jim Koepke]

Seldom is on of my pieces knot free.

They bring character to a piece if they are not falling out.

After working with them for a while, it is easy to see which need gluing and which will stay without anything more than the finish.

jtk

[Andrae Covington]

Got to the board that I was going to use for the last third to my tabletop on my little shaker side table. Daggnabbit it's got three small knots in it. My wife said she didn't mind but I'm wondering if it's going to give me problems. Will it?

Sounds like we're building something similar, and I had the same issue. When I chose a board to make the tops for two little side tables, I thought there was enough clear material between the knots. I avoided the largest ones, but couldn't avoid them all. So this top has some small but ugly knots on the underside. By the time they get through to the show side, they're pin knots or just a swirl.

tabletop-knots-underside.jpgtabletop-knots-showside.jpg

Because of all the reversing grain (even without the knots), I used a high-angle blade in my smoothing plane and set the mouth tight and depth fine. The board had already been surface planed when I bought it and was approximately the thickness I wanted, so I didn't have to hog off a lot of material, just clean it up with the smoother. As others have said, the knots can take a toll on your blades. I'm repeating what others have said but reducing the depth of cut, setting the chipbreaker close if it's a bevel-down plane, tightening the mouth, using a high-angle blade, any of those will help.

[Frank Drew]

For a contrary opinion: Any more than a tight pin knot is more than I want in a piece, certainly nothing that has to be glued in place or that has cracks that need filling; clear (knot free) lumber has always carried a premium.

[Winton Applegate]

Ha, ha
Sorry, i just had to get that out.

I will throw out some stuff to think about looking into ect.:
Try to find the Norm Abrams New Yankee Workshop episode on cypress and using "Dutchmans" . Which are inlaid thick veneer patches. Done right, as Norm shows you, it is a good way to go. Once you practice and if you take your time and select the wood grain properly you can practically make the out line of the patch disappear and the grain blend in. There are even some foe tricks to make it absolutely blend in.


Next . . . try wetting the knots with , in order of preference but use only one, denatured alcohol, paint thinner or water. The wet wood cuts much, much easier. The thinners don't rust your planes but if you work in a shop with poor ventilation as i do then the water is the way to go and just dry and oil your plane immediately as soon as you stop planing.


The advice of using a steeper angle blade was a good one. The cutting angle for knots needs to be steeper and the sharpening angle needs to be wider (more obtuse).