Stair project - installing hard wood treads

[sal sparacino]

Hello. I just found this site and am hoping to get some advice for my new project. I live in Northern Virginia and am replacing carpeted stairs with pre finished Brazilian cherry treads and risers. The current treads are concave. So, I decided to remove the 2x treads completely.

1) The new treads (1 1/16" thick); I am planning to add 1/2" plywood to the stringers with glue and screws and then gluing the new tread to the plywood with finish nails in the corners. Is this a good approach?

2) Also, the treads are finished on both sides. Can I glue the finished treads as they are or should I sand away the finish first?
IMG_4640.jpgIMG_4641.jpg

Looking forward to any advice! Thanks, Sal

[Paul Saffold]

Welcome to the Creek, Sal. I don't have any advice, but will soon be starting the same project but with oak, so hopefully someone will offer advice. Have you tried the search box in the upper right? There have been similar threads before.
Where did you get your treads?
Paul

[sal sparacino]

Thanks for the reply Paul. We purchased our materials from Lynn Wholesale Flooring, Beltsville, MD. Hopefully we will hear some advice. I did not mention this in my previous post, but as part of the stair project I am replacing the newel posts, balusters and railing as well as installing prefinished hard wood flooring on the second floor.

Good luck with your project!

Sal

[Sam Murdoch]

Here is a good link on the subject http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...Nail-Glue-Both

I'm not sure about the question of using adhesive on the underside of a finished tread. I'd be inclined to scuff the backs with some 80 grit but I would also do a test piece. Squeeze out some PL adhesive and put 1/2" ply to a piece of tread cutoff. You'll know the next day if the adhesive will hold. Also good to read the info on the tube.

The question of whether or not to use nails and adhesive - just adhesive - or just nails is discussed in the link. It was mentioned that if you expect traffic on the stairs before the adhesive really has a chance to dry than nails are essential. Be aware in that case that Brazilian Cherry does not like nails. You will need to drill for every nail and driving in the head (even of a finished nails) is likely to cause at least a few splits. Ideally drill just through the finished material and allow the nail to grab the ply and stringers under. I have been comfortable using the PL adhesive without nails on similar projects, but I always had control of the traffic on the steps.

Using a guide for cutting the steps and risers in between the skirt boards is an excellent investment. Don't hesitate to buy one of the ones mentioned in the link or at the least make your own. I use one of these http://www.collinstool.com/base.php?...gauge_ends.htm Combined with a Festool TS55 and a short guide rail you will get a good tight fit with relatively little effort or frustration.

You don't say if you will machine joints into the underside of the tread nose and the face of the stringer so that these all lock together with glue (not the PL adhesive) and hide the joints but that is also well worth the effort if you have enough width in your stock - http://www.g-w.com/pdf/sampchap/9781590706480_ch18.pdf See figure 18/17 on page 607 of this link.

Good luck. And welcome to the Creek.

[Sam Murdoch]

Obviously this thread is posted in the wrong forum. I just noticed. Can this be moved to help out the OP? Thanks.

[sal sparacino]

Hi Sam and thank you for the great advice and reference links. I will definitely source the tread guide and go with the PL adhesive. I had not considered routing a joint on the underside of the tread but will do so. I have enough height on the riser to accommodate this.

Based on your comments about nailing the Brazilian cherry, I will likely pass on this. However, one followup question, will a finish nail gun cause splintering as well?

I am installing box newels and have to install two on the balcony. I am planning to use LJ Smith LJ-4392. This is supplied with a mounting block that is screwed to the floor. Sorry about starting the thread in the wrong place. Hopefully this can get corrected.

Thanks again for the advice!

Sal

[Sam Murdoch]

So you are experiencing some newbie problems posting on the Creek. No matter - the conversation can continue. You just might have had more feedback on the general or woodworking projects forums.

Anyway as regards to nail guns - the issue will not be splitting as much as the likelihood of the nails being redirected by some tough grain and then the next thing you know a nail is curling out of the woodwork in a very unexpected and destructive matter. You need to have the pressure well regulated - no driving nails at the end of the pressure cycle.

I have not used the LJ Smith system but I understand that they have a pretty good product support so if you have questions they should be able to give you the best advice.

You might consider using GRK finish screws rather than nails http://www.buygrkfasteners.com/grk-f...ad-screws.html These are pricey but well worth the money. You should be able to find them at the big box stores or at a local lumber yard as well as on line. Just be sure to clamp your work as you drive the screws. Never depend on the screws to pull the work together (a typical DIY mistake). There are some exceptions to this rule but one needs to understand the rules and the reasoning before breaking the rules. If you decide to use the trim screws, you will need to prebore for these in such hard wood - and take the time to make a bigger hole for the head. Just do some test drilling. One drill bit for the main body and then another size or two up for the head. With this second hole go only as deep as you need to get the head below the surface without splitting. Tedious work but for good results. Ask me how I know .

Also, use regular Titebond II wood glue or the like for all the joinery and save the PL for applying the treads and risers to their substrates.

[sal sparacino]

Well, I am glad that you found this thread Sam! Thanks for the advice on the screws. Sounds like you have done this a time or two! Using screws, I assume that I will need to use plugs to hide the heads correct? I am about one month away from the real work (waiting on my stair parts) so I will be sure to post pictures as I move along.

Sal

[Sam Murdoch]

With the trim head screws you could just get away with a wax stick fill over the hole. The right color of wax stick and it all disappears. There is a product called COLOR PUTTY (don't know the maker) that is an oil based soft putty. I use it with great success. Fill the hole than scrape it flush with a formica chip. Needs to be applied to a sealed wood grain (to keep the product from bleeding away from the hole) but once it is dry you can coat over it with your finish. I don't know if it can be covered with a water based finish but I know it works very well under oil or varnish. Of course you can use regular screws and then you must use plugs (bungs). That is certainly acceptable and not much more work.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Sam - you da man when it comes to stairs!

Any tips on putting oak treads over 27 year old cast concrete steps?

[Sam Murdoch]

Hi Rich, sorry but that is uncharted territory for me. You'll have to check the internets .



Good - I see that this post has been moved to the right forum! Maybe others will jump in to help Sal and Rich.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Sam,
Thanks for the reply.
I'll start another thread about my project and the concrete when the time comes so it doesn't take Sal's thread too far off course.

But - since this is on the topic, you mentioned using the TS55 for cutting the treads.
I have a TS 55 EQ and a 42" track. Should I use that instead of a TS and sled?
To sort of answer my own question - I have more faith in the TS55EQ than I do my TS and shop made sled.

[Sam Murdoch]

Sam,
Thanks for the reply.
I'll start another thread about my project and the concrete when the time comes so it doesn't take Sal's thread too far off course.

But - since this is on the topic, you mentioned using the TS55 for cutting the treads.
I have a TS 55 EQ and a 42" track. Should I use that instead of a TS and sled?
To sort of answer my own question - I have more faith in the TS55EQ than I do my TS and shop made sled.

I meant the Festool TS 55, not a table saw. The Festool combined with the Collins stair tread template jig (or the like) is a very accurate and efficient combo. So yes, do use your TS 55 EQ - might be worthy buying a shorter guide rail though.

[Richard Wolf]

If you can get under your staircase you would have a large advantage. You can screw the treads and riser together with pocket screws which works well. Even if it's sheet rocked under the stairs, I would take the rock off.
Sam had some good advice for you, but I don't like to use trim head screws for my railings, in fact I use washer head screws so I have more holding power. Use 3/8" plugs to fill in the screw holes.

[sal sparacino]

Thank you Sam and Richard for the comments. Just one more question regarding using screws. Since I have pre-finished treads, how do you recommend finishing the plugs so all looks good? I am now questioning my decision to go with pre-finished, however I am now committed.