How to secure saw plate in machined brass back?

[george wilson]

Be careful to not abuse these cheap vises by hammering on stuff held in them. I bought 2,one for me and 1 for my friend Jon. He promptly broke his. The cast iron in these cheap vises is not very strong at all. They are o.k. for normal use,but not for blacksmithing and hammering.

[Don Orr]

David, yes we had a piece of wood on the teeth of the plate as we drove it into the back.

I don't think have any photos but will look if I remember.

[Chris Griggs]

You did this pounding on a toothed saw plate? I am guessing that you had some amount of wood between the hammer and the teeth?

Do you have any photos of the steel plate and hammer you used to close the gap?

THX

I use the softwood "bat" method to hammer my plates into backs. I just grab a piece of scrap pine round over one edge of it for hitting and then taper one end so I can grip it. I then plow a groove in another scrap to set the spine in and hammer in the plate starting at the toe using the bat. This is the method that TFWW/Gramercy uses to seat their plate in their folded spines. The "bat" gets all chewed up but that's kinda the point...it gives before the teeth or plate do. Works great!

The method is illustrated here on pg. 4. http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/p...KITXX_INST.pdf

[Don Orr]

Taking a hammer to a brass spine doesn't sound like such a good idea to me.

You're right of course but it was what we had available to us in the class. Mine actually came out with very few noticable hammer marks. If I was building incredibly beautiful saws like yours I would do it the way George describes as well as what you describe. Your saws are truly functional works of art. This was most likely a one-time thing for me and I had a good time doing it. Matt is a funny and interesting guy.

[David Kuzdrall]

David, Mike Wenzloff used to glue his in with LocTite, and I assume he still does. He wrote at one time that he used the medium LocTite, and that he found the strong (the one that requires heat to release) was too brittle.

I have chosen to use friction instead of glue for my slots. I mill the slots at the same thickness as the blade, then squeeze them so that the opening is about 0.005" thinner than the blade. Then I just pound the blades into the slot with a wooden club (before cutting any teeth). This is an extremely strong friction fit, and requires some effort. I'm not sure if it is even possible to squeeze the slot closed with ordinary woodworking tools. I used a Kurt machinist's vise on the first few I made, and that required considerable effort. I now do it with a hydraulic press, and to do a 12" spine requires from 10-12 tons of force. Of course, you can do a smaller section at a time, which will reduce the force required.

I don't know if you have access to any of this, but if you do it is another option to consider. If you try this method, make sure you round the back of the saw plate over before trying to insert it. Don't use a knife edge, as it can wander off track. Also make sure the saw plate is well supported on both sides (clamp a piece of wood on each side) so that it doesn't buckle or bend as you pound on the spine.

This is the way that I went and it worked perfectly. I used the press to close the slot just to the point of touching, it then rebounded to the perfect point allowing a good fit without having to beat the heck out of the plate. I added some blue loctite just to be sure but after I finished installing the plate in the back I don't think I needed it.

it only tools few passes over my granite plate topped with sandpaper to get the marks from the press out and I am happy with the results.

thanks for all the suggestions!

[Scott T Smith]

David, it was great to see you and Stephanie again today; I'm glad that my press did the trick for you. I can't wait to see the finished product.

Scott

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I use the softwood "bat" method to hammer my plates into backs. I just grab a piece of scrap pine round over one edge of it for hitting and then taper one end so I can grip it. I then plow a groove in another scrap to set the spine in and hammer in the plate starting at the toe using the bat. This is the method that TFWW/Gramercy uses to seat their plate in their folded spines. The "bat" gets all chewed up but that's kinda the point...it gives before the teeth or plate do. Works great!

The method is illustrated here on pg. 4. http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/p...KITXX_INST.pdf

TFWW had some videos of this as well

[David Kuzdrall]

David, it was great to see you and Stephanie again today; I'm glad that my press did the trick for you. I can't wait to see the finished product.

Scott

great seeing you as well and thanks again for the use of the press!

[Jamie Bacon]

No indeed, it means quite a bit of filing and sanding to remove all the hammer marks. But what can you do when you have only a normal vise?

I always wonder how they did it back in the 18th century.

I too would be very interested to know how they folded the brass backs in the 18th century.