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Thread: "Boat Woods"

  1. #1
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    "Boat Woods"

    Browsing the web for alternatives to teak for the exterior of a boat, I didn't really find anything I'd be comfortable using in its place. I saw some who used Honduras mahogany for handholds or companionway hatches but I would think that would only work if you kept the wood properly varnished. Or can mahogany hold up to the rigors of the sea? Are there any other woods that can?

    At a boat show I saw sapele used on the interior of a Blue Jacket 40. The Sabre 456 used cherry.

    We've been looking at buying an 80's sailboat. Some of the pics I've seen tell me there may be some replacement of wood components needed but we're steering clear of structural repair work. But there have been a few where an interior modification could give better sleeping quarters, usually in the aft cabin. When it comes to boat interiors, are you usually free to use any hardwood?

  2. #2
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    Interior wood for boats runs the gamut. On the yacht interiors that I have worked on in Mid-coast Maine since the late 70s, the solid wood species for varnish grade were typically selected to match available marine ply. But you see everything if you look, including melamine on foam cores - no particle board type products. As for exterior work, that will require minimal or no finish, teak is it. Otherwise mahogany (in the old days - rosewood) seems to be the preferred exterior grade and is finished with lots of varnish. White and red oak, white cedar, fir, spruce, pine, and ash are also used in some applications and for more working type small boats but again these are typically finished with lots of varnish or good paint. To name but a few...
    "... for when we become in heart completely poor, we at once are the treasurers & disbursers of enormous riches."
    WQJudge

  3. #3
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    Thanks Sam. That's pretty much what I've been reading but you know how reliable the web is. I just needed to hear from people I trust.

  4. #4
    Julie, I've got a 1980 Catalina 27 with some exterior teak. I've been thinking about replacing some of the pieces because they aren't in great condition. Teak in the sizes I'd need isn't readily available nor affordable. I've been considering using one of the species like Ipe or Cumaru/Brazilian Teak that is used on residential decks. I've also thought about going with local cherry. Even if it didn't last as long as the teak, I could make up enough copies to last for many years for the price of the teak.

    What sort of boat do you have in your sights?

  5. #5
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    Iroko is a common substitute for teak. It has a similar appearance and properties and is somewhat more affordable.

  6. #6
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    Hi Julie
    I'm new to this forum but maybe I can shed some light. I am a retired wood boat builder from BC Canada. The traditional woods for exterior bright work on yachts have always been teak and (real) mahogany. The main difference is how you expect them to look. If you just want durability and don't want upkeep, use teak. If you want a varnished look, use mahogany. Teak, left alone will turn a quite agreeable silver and can be maintained that way without much trouble. However if you want a varnished look mahogany will hold the varnish much better than the oilier teak. If you are talking about woods that will be painted the list grows substantially.

    Also, if you have made the commitment to a regimen of maintenance many other woods will do. If not though, teak will always be the best when left on its own.
    Paul M If God had wanted us to have fiberglass boats, he would have given us fiberglass trees.

  7. #7
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    Good day,

    It looks like you got some good answers, but as a boatbuilder, here is my take:
    I use Mahogany quite extensively. It must be varnished, but it looks amazing, and is very rot resistant. It darkens with age/exposure to UV. It turns silvery brown when left unvarnished and will crack if not varnished. Personally for handrails and things that you don't walk on, I prefer mahogany. The main reason (speaking very generally here) for teak's popularity is for decking. It can be left unvarnished due to the oils in the wood, and therefore makes for good traction on a deck. In fact, for decking if I didn't look at the price and if it wasn't that I don't like the weathered silver-grey color it turns, it would be my only choice. Because I don't like the gray color and I don't want to replace it over and over, I prefer to glass over the deck or to varnish mahogany or fir (fir is gorgeous as deck material) and just add traction either with strips or by putting an additive in the varnish and paint it on in strips.

    Someone mentioned Ipe. I don't like Ipe because it checks really bad. It is very oily and therefore rot resistant, but in my opinion it is no match for teak, and it is VERY heavy. Personal opinion- I would not use it, although I have heard of it being used as a substitute for teak. I would varnish it if I used it. Also if you use Ipe, be very careful of the dust. It's very bad on the lungs and for some sensitive people it can also cause skin irritation.

    I get mahogany locally, so I use it a lot. The local stuff (Virgin Islands) is really Cuban Mahogany. It's gorgeous. It also has a very pleasant odor almost like rosewood when cut. I use it extensively. It holds up well to UV when properly varnished. One drawback- it can be hard to work because the grain can be very haphazard, which goes for most tropical woods. I use a bevel-up plane with a 38 or 50 degree blade and it works great that way. Sometimes Mahogany can tend to break along growth rings, although tropical woods don't have distinct summer/winter rings. I steam bend it to fairly tight radii and it takes very well to steam bending. In fact, for small pieces I just boil them.

    In regards to your question about interior woods, you can pretty much use whatever you like, but some woods are more ideal than others due to strength, durability, UV/rot resistance, weight, and beauty. A mahogany or teak interior is going to look amazing, where an ipe interior will be dark and dungeonous. I have used douglas fir, and it is beautiful when varnished, yielding a reddish-orange with visible grain. Also Port Orford Cedar is great for a light colored and lightweight wood. For a darker wood, western red cedar is also lightweight, beautiful, and smells good too!

    Although interiors of boats are supposed to stay dry, they do take a lot of changes in humidity and often get unexpected dunkings in bilge water or rain from a hatch being left open. As long as you varnish well and use proper joinery, you should be good with most any wood. The biggest consideration is weight and color. I say color because down below you don't want it too dark.

    Anyway, good luck and hope my input helps.

  8. #8
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    I missed there was more replies. Glad I checked back! You guys have answered my questions above and beyond. Thank you!

    We've whittled the list of boats down from every sailboat on Yachtworld to the following:

    Front runners:
    1. Ericson 38-200
    2. Sabre 38

    Need to see:
    Moody 376
    Tartan 37
    Cabo Rico 38

    The E38 has washboard covers at the companionway. If we buy the E38, I would like to change them to doors. I may be able to use the washboards for rails and stiles but would almost certainly have to buy more wood. So that would be our first woodworking project if we bought the Ericson.

    From pictures, some of the boats look like the wood has been neglected and may need replacing. We'll know more when we see them. We're in the Chicago area but there few boats around here meet our criteria, so we're taking a trip next week to the East coast, from MD up to RI, to look at about a dozen boats. In the mean time I'm trying to gather as much information as I can so we have some idea how much $$$ we'll need to fix up the boat before we start making offers.

    BTW, has anyone here ever replaced washboards with doors? This is what the E38-200 looks like:


    We've only seen one E38 but it looked doable, though I'd have to find the right type of hinge or narrow the entrance.

  9. #9
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    Unless you are buying a new boat I do hope you will hire a certified/accredited marine surveyor before making any financial commitment.
    Here is a related important read - http://www.northwood-marine.com/uplo...-ams_Scams.pdf

    Lots of hidden ways a used boat can take all the fun out of boating. Good for you and good luck.
    "... for when we become in heart completely poor, we at once are the treasurers & disbursers of enormous riches."
    WQJudge

  10. #10
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    I've built several sailboats in your size range, all with doors as opposed to drop boards. They are really pretty easy but there are a couple of things I would point out about converting boards to doors.

    For one thing, the boat in your photo has a recessed companionway. Doors when open will make the area narrower, not a problem without the recessed location.

    Second, drop boards are usually made smaller at the bottom for ease of installation / removal. This won't usually work for doors so you will want to get the jambs vertical. Filling with a tapered spacer is easiest but would reduce the opening. The better way would be to remove the old jambs, re-cut the opening in the 'glass and re-frame the new opening. Once you have that done, the doors themselves are easy. If you PM me I'll give you any help I can.

    Here are a couple of shots of the doors on my own boat.

    DSC04470a.jpgDSC04472a.jpg
    Paul M If God had wanted us to have fiberglass boats, he would have given us fiberglass trees.

  11. #11
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    Paul,
    WOW! That is amazing work! I'm humbled.

    You make a good point about how the door will hinge in the E38. I missed that the angled hinge would conflict with the bridgedeck. Hmmmm... Time to table this until we know which boat wins the lightning round.

  12. #12
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    Not a boat builder, nor an expert, but I just finished a year long restoration of this Herreshoff H28.



    Decks are Teak left natural, frames are White Oak and everything else is Mahogany (including the hull) except the galley tops, which are ash.

    I tend to like Mahogany for everything except the decks. Good to work with and beautiful when varnished.

    John
    Last edited by John Bailey; 07-31-2013 at 10:00 PM.
    John Bailey
    Sawmill Creek is a member supported forum. Click here to donate.


  13. #13
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    Julie I think doors are more of a preference but for me I think they are a pain. I think it depends on what you are planning on doing. If you plan on doing a lot of sailing then doors IMO get in the way and are a pain. You have to figure out a way to hold them out of the way so that they don't bang on everything while sailing. If you are moreso looking for a boat to sit on the dock and doing a little sailing then doors may be easier. Paul does bring up some good points on the doors regarding the swing. If you do go with doors you will probably want to have them swing in rather than out like Paul is showing again because under sail they will get in the way. If you go on long trips you will want to get down below while under sail so keeping them closed may not be an option.

    Good luck and always remember the best boat is someone else's.

    Greg

  14. #14
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    Doors / boards is definitely a personal preference thing. I have no trouble with my doors being in the way and I sail a lot. They stay closed and I either step over them or open and close them to get in and out. I've never seen doors that swing in on a boat. They depend on the closed sliding hatch as the top jamb when locked up and I don't know how you would get that support if they swung in.
    Paul M If God had wanted us to have fiberglass boats, he would have given us fiberglass trees.

  15. #15
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    John, you did a restoration in only a year? You must work fast. Beautiful boat!

    Greg & Paul, I sailed about 8K miles on my dad's boat. It had two opening doors, that swung out above the seats, and a hinged fold-down section below the seat level. We never had a problem with it. The doors would tuck behind the seat cushions and stay put.

    The problem I see with doors that swing in is if there is ever a time a wave hits you from behind and washes into the cockpit, there wouldn't be much other than the lock to keep the water from breaking them open. I've never had that happen, but there have some close calls. Waves in Lake Michigan get steep very fast. When you're standing on the stern and you can't see over the wave that's coming up on you...

    We're driving out east tomorrow, first stop Annapolis. We've got four boats and two couples who have boats to see, one we met last year at the boat show. The other has a Moody 376, which we look forward to seeing. But no chance of sailing it. It's on the hard for a major refit.

    I'd love to dump the house and become a liveaboard but my SO can't work that with the job. I'm not giving up though!

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