Another Tandem and Blumotion Question

[Mark W Pugh]

OK, I read through the recent thread http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...slide-question. I ahve never used these, so I'm just learning.

I have a question on DEPTH of the cabinet from this document. http://www.blum.com/pdf/BUS/1100_tdm..._tdm_563_b.pdf

1. On page 6, under "Standard Length" photos, it shows the drawer depth in relation to "standard" U.S. cabinet design. It bases this on a measurement from the FRONT of the front face of the cabinet to the BACK face of the back panel. This is related to drawer depth, hence slide length.

2. On page 10 under "Step 1" the depth is measured from the FRONT of the face frame/box to the FRONT of the back panel.

3. On page 12 under "Overall Cabinet Depth", for 563 slides, it gives a depth for a particular drawer length.

Question A. Where do I base the "Overall Cabinet Depth" when I buy the slides. Is it from item 1 above or item 2 above? What constitutes a 24" cabinet based on the difference in these measurements?

Question B. If I want to have inset drawers, how much extra space do I need behind the posted depth do I need to backset the slide? How much depth behind the slide is left to the back front face once installed?

Thanks.

[Sam Murdoch]

Item 1 and item 3, i.e., page 6 and page 12 tell you the same info as to the overall length of your drawer box, the size slide you need, and the depth of the cabinet required.

I think the confusion from page 10, step 1 - your item 2, is that the drawing shows a frameless cabinet & a face frame cabinet but NOT as relates to an inset drawer, but rather to an overlay drawer.

For setting up an inset drawer you are in effect using the same cabinet depth dimension as for a frameless cabinet. Don't think of the face frame in this case or consider the finish drawer front in your calculations. Not so confusing if you just keep to the chart on page 6. This makes no difference if your are building a 4 piece inset drawer - that is a drawer box that uses the finished face as its front rather than the more typical (these days) 5 piece drawer with a finished front applied to the 4 piece drawer box - the length of the drawer box is the overall length from the back face of the back to the front face of the face.

As for your final question - the locking trigger of the slide is set right against the back face of the front piece. Therefore, the thickness of the drawer front is how far back the slide is set from "the back front once installed" (again not factoring in the thickness of the false front - ignore that).

I think that is correct - I might be confusing myself . Others will quickly jump in to clarify if that's the case .

[Mark W Pugh]

I guess an easier way to ask the questions are:

If I want a 21" drawer, does the inside cabinet depth need to be 24"? Can it be, for example, 22"?

How much distance, between the back of the slide and the back of the cabinet, exists for a 21" slide in a 24" (depth) box? I'm just trying to figure out how much I can set the slide back, if I choose inset drawers.

Thanks.

[Charles Brown]

I use the 563H slides a lot but don't really fuss too hard about squeezing every last centimetre from a drawerbox. If you look at the bottom of page 15 it will give you the information of drawer length, inside cabinet depth for the faceframe attachment and the overall runner length.

It really matters what type of cabinet you are making, too. Overlay drawers on a face frame cabinet utilize different specs then inset face frame, etc., etc. Mind you with the new 563H I don't think you can use the rear mounting options because the angled side of the runner is only 8" long or so.

If the book is giving you fits, why not just buy one and play with it.

[Sam Murdoch]

I guess an easier way to ask the questions are:

If I want a 21" drawer, does the inside cabinet depth need to be 24"? Can it be, for example, 22"?

How much distance, between the back of the slide and the back of the cabinet, exists for a 21" slide in a 24" (depth) box? I'm just trying to figure out how much I can set the slide back, if I choose inset drawers.

Thanks.

Geez- I answered all your questions and you still want more . OK then - the slide lengths (562 series) are 1/2" longer than their designation, i.e., an 18" slide (known as the "profile") is 18 1/2" long. The book specs that the inside cabinet depth can be no less than 7/8" more than the designated length - so an 18" slide needs no less than 18 7/8" cabinet depth. Please note - the 568 series "profiles" vary in length from 7/16" to 11/16" longer than their size designation and the min. inside cabinet depth dimension goes from 5/8" more to 15/16" more. You need to know the specific slide length. If you are using a rear mount bracket for any of these, rather than hanging the slides off the cabinet sides you need to pay attention to that spec. That adds more to the depth. I must admit that I did not see any of this in that PDF you linked too but in my Blum Master catalog. Always wise to do a mock up the first time you use a piece of hardware. I think that covers the basics.

[Mark W Pugh]

Sam, thanks. That is exactly what I was looking for. I guess I need to find the specs on the web for those slides I referenced.

[Sam Murdoch]

Item 1 and item 3, i.e., page 6 and page 12 tell you the same info as to the overall length of your drawer box, the size slide you need, and the depth of the cabinet required.

I think the confusion from page 10, step 1 - your item 2, is that the drawing shows a frameless cabinet & a face frame cabinet but NOT as relates to an inset drawer, but rather to an overlay drawer.

For setting up an inset drawer you are in effect using the same cabinet depth dimension as for a frameless cabinet. Don't think of the face frame in this case or consider the finish drawer front in your calculations. Not so confusing if you just keep to the chart on page 6. This makes no difference if your are building a 4 piece inset drawer - that is a drawer box that uses the finished face as its front rather than the more typical (these days) 5 piece drawer with a finished front applied to the 4 piece drawer box - the length of the drawer box is the overall length from the back face of the back to the front face of the face.

(SEE EDIT BELOW) As for your final question - the locking trigger of the slide is set right against the back face of the front piece. Therefore, the thickness of the drawer front is how far back the slide is set from "the back front once installed" (again not factoring in the thickness of the false front - ignore that).

I think that is correct - I might be confusing myself . Others will quickly jump in to clarify if that's the case .

THIS IS AN EDIT TO Correct an error in my first post.

As for your final question - the locking trigger of the slide is set right against the back face of the front piece but the profile of the slide comes past to within an 1/8" of the very front of the drawer sides.

[Mark W Pugh]

A couple more questions. Yes, I'm a rookie, so bare with me.

1. Locking devices for the drawer runners. For the 563 series it lists T51.1901.PS and T51.1901. The "PS" seems to give a depth adjustment, at twice the cost. Any comments on the need for this adjustment?

2. The template for lining up the locking devices for mounting. Gimmick or required? Doesn't the locking devices just get mounted flush in the corners of the drawers?

3. The new Compact Blumotion hinges, for FF cabinets. Any preference?

Thanks again. Trying to learn.

[Sam Murdoch]

Consider yourself bared with

1) Depends on how accurate your woodworking, install, and site conditions are. I haven't found the need.

2) Don't use the jig - as you said. The drawer back hole locater can be a time saver though.

3) Haven't used them. I think the Blumotion thing is overrated but clients love it. I don't mind needing to close drawers and doors myself. Never in such a hurry that I can't.

Just one man's opinion...

[Jay Jolliffe]

I just installed 20 sets of the slides. I did it before I had the actual drawer. I used a piece of the drawer front as a spacer from the face frame to the slide. These were all inset drawers. I needed to move them back an 1/8 of an inch when the drawers showed up. I cheat. I don't make my own drawers.I have a company make them & they come dovetailed, notched & finished. Also they sell the slides cheaper than any catalog. So the depth is deeper than the drawer front. What they have as an add on to the connecting clips for inset drawers are these little adjusters that will move the drawer out or in for a precise adjustment.