How to set up/refurbish these saws

[Duncan Ainslie]

Hi Chaps,

I've recently picked up some hand-saws cheap on ebay - mostly for more saw sharpening practice but also with the aim to kit out a tool chest and replace my plastic handled saws - and I'm debating how I should go about sharpening them. I've been trying to pick up a rip-saw and two of them (top two in the picture, below) were listed as such but on inspection they look like cross-cut. So I've ended up with three saws, all of which look to me like cross-cut. I'm wondering if I can file any to work as a rip-saw, and, if I can, which is the best candidate.

The three saws:

• Saw 1 (top). Jackson saw from the Keystone Saw works. 5tpi, 26 1/2" blade with a rake ranging from 12-20 degrees across the teeth, and not much fleam.
• Saw 2 (middle). Unnamed saw, but the medallion reads 'Warranted Superior' with a Keystone symbol. 6tpi, 26" blade with a rake of about 18 degrees, and a fair bit of fleam. Currently very blunt. This one's got a fairly big handle, with enough space to fit the thumb of my left hand though which I understand can help with ripping?
• Saw 3 (bottom). Spear and Jackson "Spearior" 88. 9tpi, 22" blade with 18-22 degrees rake and filed at an angle for cross cutting.

So, is it possible to re-file one of these and adjust the rake to make it more suited to rip cutting (which I understand to be 0 - 8 degrees) simply by holding the file in a jig set at the correct angle? If that is possible, which of the above saws is the best candidate for a rip saw? (1 has the better teeth, but 2 has the better handle to my mind).
Could I even get away with keeping the relaxed rake angle (gradually improving it if possible) but filling straight across for no fleam, or will not serve/cut-slowly when rip-cutting?


And - as a slight aside - I have two books here that comment on the best type of saw to own if you only have one saw. Chris Schwarz suggests getting a rip-saw first as it can be made to cut cross-grain and just requires more cleaning up, whilst Charles Hayward recommends a single cross-cut saw first which he claims can be used to cutting with and across the grain. Are either of these approaches 'right or wrong', or do both approaches leave you with a saw that can be forced to do either job, but isn't ideal for one of them? I'm planning to make a smallish Dutch style tool chest, which will only fit a shorter saw, and I'm hoping the Spear and Jackson cross-cut saw will fit that purpose.

Apologies if I've mixed up any of the terminology - my confusion on some points may be apparent in the (possibly foggy) wording of my questions!

Any help much appreciated,

Duncan

[David Weaver]

It's possible, and not difficult, and it'll take less filing than you might think. Build yourself a block to go on the end of a file and give you somewhere in the range of 5 degrees of rake (you can easily relax that a little later, but if you saw something thicker than an inch, you'll appreciate having it). Mind the size of the teeth, of you them getting out of even on size by a lot, you can adjust your lateral pressure to work one tooth more than another to keep them all relatively the same size, just be careful to mind the rake angle. It really isn't absolutely essential that every tooth has exactly the same size rake, but 12-20 is both too gradual and also too wide of a range. If you vary between 4 and 6 or whatever, no big deal.

You will have to lean into a saw with that much rake to get it to rip cut, and you're really cheating yourself. Ripping is a lot of work, you want the saw set up properly so it will bite and sever straws without you having to bear down on it and fatigue yourself. At the same time, you don't want so little rake (like zero) so as the saw bites and doesn't allow you to finish a full stroke.

Crosscutting with a rip saw doesn't happen on a five point saw, so figure that one will be dedicated rip. The 6 point may be suitable crosscut if you are cutting something very thick, but in general that is a rip size.

Set the other 9 tpi saw up with a relaxed crosscut rake and try it without adding fleam first to see if you like how it crosscuts.

Save the aggressive rip teeth on crosscuts for joinery saws where you have a high tooth count.

[Sam Stephens]

In addition to the excellent info given by David, here's a good no-nonsense primer on saw filing that helped me get started.

http://www.vintagesaws.com/cgi-bin/f...mer/sharp.html

[Jim Koepke]

For general ripping a long saw is helpful. If one is ripping short pieces then it isn't as important.

For long rips I like my 6 ppi with about 8º of rake. It is a little slower, but doesn't tire me out as fast as a more aggressive saw. At one time I timed myself with two different saws and found that the 4-1/2 ppi saw with 5º of rake was only a minute or two faster on a 10' ash plank. My arm and shoulder were a lot more worn out.

Of course if you have a lot of stamina and are muscularly well developed it may be more to your liking to have a saw needing a bit more horse power to get it through the work.

If the saws were mine, the top two would likely be set up as rip saws and make one with a more relaxed rake. Maybe 8-9º on the 5 ppi and 4-5º on the 6ppi. That may make the saws about the same in use. Swap the rake settings and one saw would be aggressive and a bit of work and the other would be a bit slower and easier to use.

The Spear & Jackson would be the crosscut since they usually do not have to cut much more than a foot or so. As for rake and fleam, it would depend on the woods you use versus how fast you want to cut. Relaxed the rake and increase the fleam for a smooth cutting saw (softwood teeth) that may need a bit more sharpening. If you use hardwoods you will most likely want to keep your fleam below 20º.

jtk

[Duncan Ainslie]

Thanks for the advice guys, I'll sharpen them up as recommended and see how I get on. Gives me something useful to do this weekend!