Northfield Jointer Update & questions

[Casey Carr]

Okay, so I have a 5 hp rotary phase converter on the way to power this aircraft carrier.

I have the casters on order for the mobile base that I have yet to build, but finished designing for the most part. Need to tweak it a little, but not much.

I called Northfield, they're great to talk to and very helpful. Still need to switch out the heating coils on the starter, which they'll sell me. Need to replace the switch and possibly front panel on the starter box. They also sell replacement knives for $150. The knives are high speed steel. I've heard good things about the carbide tipped knives, but Infinity doesn't have the size I need, so I did a google search. There is one company that I found that makes the size I need. American National Knife is the place, a set of 3 costs $280. Anyone dealt with this company and know anything about them as far as quality? And on average, how many re-sharpenings could I get out of a set of blades? I know nicks and what not could seriously limit the lifetime, but trying to get a feel for this here.

At that price, I got to thinking I might as well go for the byrd shelix head. Basically 4 sets of knives and I've paid for the byrd head. Talking to the office lady at Northfield, she was saying they did not recommend the helical cutterheads. Something about it taking Hercules to hold the work piece down. Does anyone on here have a helical cutter on a 12" or bigger jointer, and is it a problem holding it down?

This thing is going to break me...Thanks for any help!

[David Kumm]

Talk to Bobby at Woodworkers Tool Works. He will set you up about as reasonably as anyone. Does a very good job at sharpening as well. Will also advise as to type of blade. Steel knives with an extra set are my preference. Use the money to buy a oneway dial indicator base for knife changing. Is your RPC rated to start a 5 hp motor? Some are listed at running capacity, not start up. Dave

[Mark Carlson]

I have a 12in byrd on a hammer A3-31. No problem holding the work down. I don't understand her comment.

[Chip Lindley]

IF the Northfield is gonna break you, Please take some photos while you can still afford to recharge your digital camera! ;-)

No Photos, Didn't Happen!

~Chip~

[Damon Stathatos]

...Still need to switch out the heating coils on the starter, which they'll sell me. Need to replace the switch and possibly front panel on the starter box.

...They also sell replacement knives for $150.
!

I went through the starter/switch thing on an old Powermatic 90 table saw. The conventional replacements that I found were going to run me more than the whole table saw in the first place. I finally stumbled upon the fact that Grizzly has a solution to this problem for well under $100, and yes, it's both a starter and a switch. They have 3ph versions for both 220 and 440.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Magn...nly-5-HP/G8294

Dealing with Northfield is a pretty neat experience not the least of which is the nostalgia value, however, they're 'pricey.' I have a Northfield 4 table saw and one of their 27" bandsaws and but usually go third party for parts, if I can.

As far as the knives, their price probably isn't too bad but I'm sure you can do better. Look for industrial saw blade dealers, guys that service wood shops. They'll quote you on any configuration you would want. If you can't find one, PM me and I'll direct you to my 'guy' out here. You'll get a ton of sharpenings out of a set so I wouldn't let that slow you down. As far as carbide goes, I considered it but it's not as expensive to sharpen steel and unless you're running multiple hours a day, non-stop, you're not going to have to sharpen all that often. I mainly run cocobolo which is hard and dense stuff, but the steel blades hold up fine and really do last a reasonable amount of time. My advice to you is to start with a set of steel and if after you run them a while you're wanting more life, then think about carbide. My guess is that you'll soon forget that you were considering anything other than steel.

Northfield made and makes great equipment, stuff that outlasted the previous generation and will outlast us as well as probably our kids. Best of luck with your project.

[Casey Carr]

Hey Chip, not sure what you're wanting a photo of, but I'll throw you one of the jointer. Still waiting on the other stuff.

jointer-1.jpg

I didn't understand the comment on not being able to hold it down either. If anything, I'd think it would be easier to hold down. I still need to talk to Jeff at Northfield about this and get some more stuff ordered from him.

The motor on the jointer is only 3hp, talking with the phase converter company, they said the converter I bought should work fine for what I have. It's an American Rotary converter. Another good company based on the phone calls I've had with them. They're also having a 25% off sale if anyone else needs a converter. I got mine brand new off the bay directly from the manufacturer, so was even cheaper than the 25% off.

I'll have to take a look at the oneway dial indicator base. Northfield has one they'll sell me for $100! Speaking of, what do most people use to set their jointer blades? Jeff was telling me what he sells is the only way to find true top dead center, but I think what he's meaning is the style that he's selling. May be able to find a cheaper option. Saw one somewhere it had magnets in it to hold the blade, thought that might be nice. Of course, if I get the helical cutter head, won't need one, so I could save myself $100!

[David Kumm]

Casey, Take a look at ebay, that furnas starter is not all that rare. You may be able to find the whole thing and steal parts. Heaters will be cheap. Go on OWWM.org and ask on BOYD and you will find furnas starters. They are good old electricals. $50 probably gets you what you need. Buy a good set of knives and live with them before you decide to change the head. A byrd head takes a little more power. Nice jointer, they called it their medium duty. Get a oneway with the flat bottom tip. You don't need any other way to find top dead center. The indicator will do it. And don't set the blades referencing the cutterhead. Find a starter from the period. If not furnas, allen bradley 709, cutler hammer 9586, etc. Dave

[Casey Carr]

All right, I think you guys might have talked me out of the helical cutterhead and the carbide knives. I'll try the hss and see how it lasts. I've never jointed anything in my life, and I can't even seem to find the time to actually do woodworking with all the projects I have on the house. But this one I was excited about. Was actually going to build some new gates since the ones I have are falling apart. Can classify it as a need to do versus a want to do and been using it as an excuse to get the jointer up and running since I found a lumber source in Chino that sells rough lumber, all four sides. But he's giving me a deal on it since I helped him find some chukar hunting grounds. And it'll be an excuse to get the planer that I still lack, and in order for all this to work well, I'll need a dust collector! See how this works? I'm getting good at convincing the wife!

The heaters aren't all that bad at $30 a pop from Northfield, but I'll look on ebay and see if I can't find what I need there. Don't know if it's noticable, but the Furnas box got beat up in shipping, so wouldn't mind a new one anyways.

David, what do you mean by not setting the blades referencing the cutterhead? What Northfield is selling is a crescent shaped thing that sits around the cutter head and has an indicator right in the middle to check the blade. This to me would be setting the blades referenced off the cutterhead. This not the proper way to do things? Is there somewhere online that can walk me through on how to set the blades? This is all completely new to me.

[Frank Drew]

The motor on the jointer is only 3hp

Casey, I had an older version of that same machine, with a 3hp belt drive, and I never felt that it was underpowered. And I did lots of face planing of wide stock.

[Chip Lindley]

Hey Chip, not sure what you're wanting a photo of, but I'll throw you one of the jointer.



I didn't understand the comment on not being able to hold it down either. If anything, I'd think it would be easier to hold down. I still need to talk to Jeff at Northfield about this and get some more stuff ordered from him.

The motor on the jointer is only 3hp, talking with the phase converter company, they said the converter I bought should work fine for what I have. It's an American Rotary converter. Another good company based on the phone calls I've had with them. They're also having a 25% off sale if anyone else needs a converter. I got mine brand new off the bay directly from the manufacturer, so was even cheaper than the 25% off.

I'll have to take a look at the oneway dial indicator base. Northfield has one they'll sell me for $100! Speaking of, what do most people use to set their jointer blades? Jeff was telling me what he sells is the only way to find true top dead center, but I think what he's meaning is the style that he's selling. May be able to find a cheaper option. Saw one somewhere it had magnets in it to hold the blade, thought that might be nice. Of course, if I get the helical cutter head, won't need one, so I could save myself $100!

Thanks for the pix Casey. I just love seeing one more Northfield MD 12!

Your 5hp RPC will start the 3hp direct drive Northfield motor just fine if wired up per the maker's installation instructions.

I can see why you might be going broke soon if you buy all needed parts from Northfield. Those guys have a world-class jointer, but also world-class prices. You can do better from other sources and maintain the same quality.

12" HSS knives need not be directly from Northfield. Stock 12" NF knives are listed as 12" x 1-1/4" x 1/8". As long as you have a matched set of a width that can be captured fully by the cutterhead gibs, any set in that neighborhood will work. Used knives are fine if they are good quality HSS. You will be surprised how long a set of sharp knives will last under home shop conditions. As to setting the knives, you can get lots of insight from Bob Vaughn's videos listed on the Wiki.

Are your Furnas heaters missing or sized for 440v? Furnas starter heaters can be found on ebay or from online commercial sources cheaper than $30 each. I've bought more than a few. Do a search for the "E" number you need for the amperage of your 3hp motor running on 230v. Ask here on BOYD for Furnas parts to fix your starter. Also search ebay for a Furnas enclosure and pushbutton station if both are trashed beyond repair. Close-up photos of your starter will help.

Truth be known, any NEMA Size 0, 3-pole starter will work for your jointer. Over time Northfield changed their starter configurations many times. But, a Furnas starter like the one on your jointer should be easy to track down.

Best of Luck!
~Chip~

[glenn bradley]

they did not recommend the helical cutterheads. Something about it taking Hercules to hold the work piece down.

I have a 12in byrd on a hammer A3-31. No problem holding the work down. I don't understand her comment.

I have no idea where that statement would have come from.

[David Kumm]

Casey, You want the blades set level with the outfeed table. The cutterhead may or may not be exactly aligned with the tables. My Porter allows the cutterhead to be adjusted but I don"t know if the northfield allows an easy way to do that. I set the oneway dial indicator base on the outfeed table with the dial contact point on the blade. Rotate the cutterhead until you get the highest reading which will be top dead center. Then adjust the knife going side to side. Keep in mind that tightening the gib bolts will change the reading .001 or.002 so you need to go back and forth but will get used to it. There are some really good articles and videos on the process. What I do works for me but there are many ways. I am an accountant in real life so I like using dial indicators and reference to the numbers. Others do it without them. Finding and learning about old motor starters is part of the fun of OWWM so don't be afraid of them. Dave

[Keith Weber]

Casey,

Marc from thewoodwhisperer.com does a great video on jointer setup. Just go to his website and look up the video (#118). He tries a bunch of different knife setting gizmos and gives his thoughts on which one is best and why he believes so.

I'm surprised that American Rotary sold you a 5hp RPC for a 3hp jointer. The general rule of thumb with AR RPCs is double the motor to get the minimum RPC size. I was told by Jay at AR that a jointer is a "hard" starting motor, so you should step up a size. I was going to buy a 15hp RPC to start my 7.5hp Northfield HD16 jointer, but he recommended that I go with a 20hp. I did, even though I think that the 15hp would have been fine. In the end, I'm glad I did buy the 20hp since I later picked up a 10hp Powermatic planer. Now that 15hp widebelt sander that's showing up next Monday is going to be another issue. Should have just gone with a 60hp and called it a day! LOL!

Keith

[Casey Carr]

Hey Keith, I talked with Jay at American Rotary also and he said the RPC I bought should be fine. Even told him how much the cutter head weighs, said it shouldn't be any problem. Big plus is its an American made motor, and they're very comfortable with what the American made motors pull. Too late anyways as the box was sitting on my porch when I got home last night! Now I just have to put the thing together.

I also don't have any clue where the helical cutter head comment came from. I just got an e-mail from Byrd that Mr. Northfield himself just placed an order for one in a 12" medium duty jointer that they're refurbishing in house. So it sounds like the cutter heads are fine if I ever do decide to go that route. I think I'll take a look at the blades I have and see if I can't get them re-sharpened, then go from there. See how they last.

I did find some heaters on ebay. There's 3 of what I need for about $30 bucks after shipping even, so that'll save me some cash. Now I need to figure out what else I need. I don't know what this stuff is called, but did a part search on ebay with no luck. You guys can look at the pic and tell me what the thing is, but the on/off button broke off of whatever it is I need and I'd like to replace it. Probably don't have an option and actually need to replace it. Here are the furnas.jpgcover.jpg

[Casey Carr]

Or do I not order the heaters and just buy a new box with all new goodies inside?