Need some help on how to clearance these lids

[Shelby Merrick]

I'm starting on a window seat for our house that will double as toy storage for the kids in our playroom. Pretty sure I have a handle on everything except for the lids. I'm playing to mount them with piano hinges and struts for safety. My original design had a bullnose edge what was mitered on the inside corners and the lids were set 4" inside the corners. This made access to the back of the side cabinets a little impractical as it was over 20" deep from the lid opening to the back wall. I then laid out the top with almost fill width lids, but am having an issue on how to layout the inside corners where the lids meet. I switched to a 3/4 x 1.5" edge on this version with a 3/8" round-over for simplicity in sketchup. The actual edge will probably be different but similar in dimensions. What's the best way to go about this and have nice cleans lines for the lids to open? It's designed to go in as 3 separate pieces so I can build the cabinets in my garage.
Window Bench.jpgWindow Bench Edging.jpg

[Dave Richards]

I think I would make the center lid shorter (side to side) and leave a 1-1/2 or 2 in. wide rail between the lids. If you share your SKP file, I'll modify it for you to show you what I'm thinking.

[Shelby Merrick]

I think I would make the center lid shorter (side to side) and leave a 1-1/2 or 2 in. wide rail between the lids. If you share your SKP file, I'll modify it for you to show you what I'm thinking.

Ah, I see it now I think. I narrowed the center lid up and coped the edging on the side lids where it meets the center cabinet. As long as I stay with a simplistic edge I'm thinking this should work. Sketchup file is attached. Thanks!
Window Bench Rev2.jpg

[Dave Richards]

That's closer to what I was thinking. I would straighten out the side lids--get rid of the notches--and run the molding straight back.

I'll look at your model when I get home from work.

[Shelby Merrick]

They're notched like that because its 3 separate cabinets and the side lids are hanging over the face frame. It's going to be painted and have a cushion on it as well so the glue line shouldn't be noticeable. This evolved from a full built in to a modular / install build so I've updated the cabinet structure as well. New sketchup attached. I cut all the plywood except the lids last night and hopefully start building tonight. Still a day or so out on the frace frames and edges. Any places I should reinforce the cabinets? Only my 2nd project worthy of going into the house Thanks again for the help!

Side Cabinet (side panel and lid hidden):
Window Bench - Side Cab.jpg

Center cabinet (side panel and lid/top hidden):
Window Bench - Center Cab.jpg

[Sam Murdoch]

You could also just cut the tops out of the centers rather than having them open all the way to the front with the molding. Add a flush pull to each lid.

Here is my humble drawing of the idea - not scaled to your design but just showing the intent.


Screen Shot 2013-07-31 at 10.12.16 AM.jpg

[Shelby Merrick]

You could also just cut the tops out of the centers rather than having them open all the way to the front with the molding. Add a flush pull to each lid.

Here is my humble drawing of the idea - not scaled to your design but just showing the intent.


Screen Shot 2013-07-31 at 10.12.16 AM.jpg

Oooo, I like that idea. What would be the best way to give the front a lip to sit on? Plywood or poplar strips running the length of the front lip similar to the side support cleats? I'm thinking 3" wide, giving the lid a 1.5" lip to sit on for front and sides, supported by a piano hinge on the back. Would that work? For finishing, I'm planning to put the finished side of the plywood on the inside and use BLO. The outside will be sprayed white to match a bookcase I just finished. I like this as it opens up opportunities for more elegant trim and keeps the lines clean. Still learning here, thanks!

[Pat Barry]

Because these are for a kids room and use I think you should strongly consider adding a shock absorber / soft closure mechanism so that the kids don't get their heads and fingers banged up by a falling lid. Also beware of pinch points along the sides of the lids.

[Sam Murdoch]

Oooo, I like that idea. What would be the best way to give the front a lip to sit on? Plywood or poplar strips running the length of the front lip similar to the side support cleats? I'm thinking 3" wide, giving the lid a 1.5" lip to sit on for front and sides, supported by a piano hinge on the back. Would that work?

Yes, that would be excellent. If you are using ply for the interior a ply cleat would be just fine. You can then edge band any exposed plywood edges (at least the front and sides of the lids) with iron on veneer tape or solid wood - 3/16" to 3/8" thick. This will make the edge more durable over time. And yes all this will still be much simpler to build and will look cleaner than your original concept.

[Dave Richards]

Shelby, my apologies for not getting back to this sooner. I was tied up with something else. Sam gave you a great suggestion--I was working that out in your model but he's faster. You can put in finger holes for lifting the lids or install some sort of recessed handles. Pat has a good suggestion, too. Look at Rockler. They have some cool torsion hinges that would be work able in this application. Worth a look.

[Shelby Merrick]

Thanks again everyone. No worries Dave and appreciate the help. I'll probably go with finger holes for pulls and edge band the front and sides of the lids with poplar. I had planned on installing struts for safety but haven't sourced them yet. I'll checkout Rockler. Given the new lid design, I'd like to make the top one piece now with the edge moulding attached. This way I can still carry the 3 cabinets upstairs separately and attach the top / lid assembly with pocket screws. Since I already cut my tops, would edge joining the 3 top pieces with pocket screws and glue suffice? The joint will be supported by the cabinet sides once installed so I'm thinking it would be ok. I can do biscuits as well, but am thinking the pocket screws would be better for this. I realize it's a short grain joint, but its already cut and I don't have the material for a proper joint. Am I setting myself up for failure?
Window Bench - Flush Lids.jpg Window Bench - Flush Lids Open.jpg

[Sam Murdoch]

The down side to depending on pocket screws is that you need to very tightly secure the face of the 2 mating pieces or you will get misalignment, add to that the thickness of plywood is invariably not consistent and you will be frustrated if you just use pocket screws. The biscuits register off the top face and so will mitigate that effect (though not completely eliminate it without a careful glue up). I would use biscuit spaced about 6" apart and then add a bead of adhesive caulk to the underside of the joint where it sits on the base.

Add plywood rips as braces held with clamps or screwed to the non visible undersides of the top while you are moving the top around - your joints will be fragile and won't tolerate flexing while moving.

The hardware selection might require a bit of modification to the interior - support blocks at the back, for example, to secure the lifter. There are lots of variations out there on the theme of lid stays. Always a good idea to have your hardware on hand (or at least have all the specs) before you finalize your construction details.
Checkout Hafele too while you are searching - http://www.hafele.com/us/en/external...e/TCH_FC_2013/.

I'm glad you liked my suggestion. It looks better already .