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Thread: What makes a great waterstone great?

  1. Quote Originally Posted by Bobby O'Neal View Post
    Here's the punchline first:

    I have all but decided on ordering Stu's set of Sigmas. Just still pondering it a bit because its a chunk of money.


    In this pondering, I've wondered if its going to be best to drop about $300 on these particular stones or space that out with other less expensive stones and other tools or materials. I feel like the answer is already "yes, get the good stones and you won't regret it." I think there is the potential to regret a purchase of something like Norton's for example.

    So all that said, with the answer almost already in place, I've been wondering what it is that makes the good stones better than the rest? Is it longevity, consistency, etc.? The flipped question is, what sacrifices are being made going with a "lesser" stone?
    Somebody mentioned oilstones. I have a couple natural oilstones. I don't know that there's anything necessarily mysterious about using them, per se. I used both sides of the stones and attempt to keep the wear even. Mind the corners and the middle will take care of itself one writer has written. I think that's true.

    The Washita has a 'good' side and a 'bad' side and I'm reasonably sure old timers would have sunk this stone in plaster, bad side down of course. I use the bad side often - it's a little grabbier but faster too.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Augusto Orosco View Post
    Stanley brings up very valid points, but I will offer a counterpoint which apply to my particular circumstances: I am a newbie and a hobbyist. Life and work allows me very little precious time at the shop (maybe 2 hours every other week!). With so little time, I takes me forever to learn and master any skill, no matter how simple. I initially bought a set of cheap water stones and tried some free-hand sharpening. Their feedback was poor and my results were sub-par and inconsistent, to say the least. I am sure I would have mastered the skill if I had followed Stanley's route; but with 2 hours/week or less, it was just too slow a process for me. I bought a Veritas Mk-II jig and things improved, but results were still not satisfactory. Later, my wife got me a set of Sigma Power II as a gift. There's virtually no learning curve there; the stones worked great from the get go and the jig works as advertised. My tools are now way sharper and I am not afraid to sharpen again, since I get good results with little effort and can really tell that the stones are working.

    Note that my ability to tell now that my results were poor and inconsistent and that the cheap stones had bad 'feedback' is something I can tell now only because the better stones and the jig made it blatantly obvious to me that was the case. Had I stayed with the cheap stones, I am sure I would have eventually figured it out, but as I mentioned, it would have taken me a lot of time (and mastering something at two-hour chunks every other week is probably a very inefficient way to develop muscle memory, for instance).

    I am now using my time trying to master other fundamental skills (sawing to a line, for instance!), which is something I enjoy so I don't mind much how long it takes me. If my circumstances change and I end up with a lot more time to dedicate to this hobby, I will probably try to master sharpening without jigs and get much better at it so the results are more a matter of me rather than the stone. But for the time being, getting good stones (and a jig) was a good move for me given my limited time.

    I am not advocating this to anyone; I am just sharing my experience with the relevant context, so hopefully it is helpful to the OP in making his decision.

    P.S. I currently sharpen my cambered scrub free hand. A scrub doesn't need to be sharp to the degree a smoother needs to be, so it is much more forgiving. And a jig is less helpful here, anyway. But even in this situation, my better stones made the learning process much easier for me, particularly since they are very efficient at removing material and I had already learned to read the feedback on the stones.

    I understand Augusto's well-expressed points and agree for the most part. Understand me very clearly here: I am NOT saying that jigs are evil, or that they are the sign of an incompetent, or that they are not worthy and should be shunned like warm beer. I agree that they are a great way to learn the capabilities of a stone relatively quickly independent of one's sharpening ability. However, in my experience, they often become a crutch. It is my opinion that if you don't learn to create a decent edge without using a jig, you will not develop your full potential.

    Augusto correctly pointed out that it takes a lot of time to learn to sharpen freehand. But if you never start a job, it will never get done. Likewise, if you always rely on a jig, you will never develop advanced sharpening skills, and your ability to make the most of a particular sharpening stone will be limited. Two of the biggest advantages to freehand sharpening are speed and self-assurance. With freehand sharpening, the blade can often be resharpened in the time it takes to set up a blade in a jig. If you plan to continue woodworking as a lifetime hobby, freehand sharpening skills will eventually add up to a lot less time spent sharpening, and lot more time spent enjoying woodworking.

    Another advantage to freehand sharpening is the ability to sharpen odd-shaped blades and knives too thick or thin, or too short, or too skewed, or too curved to be sharpened quickly and precisely using conventional jigs.

    And Chris made an extremely important point. Freehand sharpening gives you the ability to uniformly work the entire face of the stone thereby minimizing dishing, saving time and materials flattening stones, and getting more sharpenings per stone than is possible using a jig.

    Make no mistake; I enjoy sharpening, and have spent a helluvalot of money on exotic stones, and frequently spend a lot of extra time above and beyond practical sharpening just making my plane and chisel and knife blades appear beautiful (its a Japanese obsession). But I don't enjoy wasting time fiddling with jigs when there is steel waiting to be worked. And my better quality stones are way too expensive to waste using inefficient jigs.

    I think you will get a lot more out of whatever waterstones you purchase, and the blades you sharpen, over the years if you take the trouble to learn to sharpen freehand.

    Here is the disclaimer: I am NOT saying that freehand sharpening is the only way to get the job done. Nor am I saying that a blade sharpened with a jig will be duller, or less useful, than one sharpened freehand, all things equal. I am absolutely NOT saying that you MUST sharpen freehand to enjoy woodworking, or to be a competent craftsman, or to build fine furniture, or to write books, blogs, or magazines about woodworking, or to promote or sell tools, or to teach woodworking classes.

    Stan

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Covington View Post
    ...they are not worthy and should be shunned like warm beer.
    Stan, I find your derogatory comment about warm beer short sited and offensive. There are any number of beers typically of low carbonation, particularly of the English variety, that some would argue are best served warm, just as some Saki's are served hot and others are served cold. Please stop trying to force your beliefs upon the rest of us. Some of use enjoy beer in all its varieties, and don't feel as though we deserve to be put down because of it.
    Woodworking is terrific for keeping in shape, but it's also a deadly serious killing system...

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Griggs View Post
    +1. Good to see that Stanley is back sharing his wisdom again. Doesn't seem like I had seen much of him lately.

    Nice to to see you back around Stanley! I always read your posts with a lot of interest.
    Thanks, Chris. I enjoy your posts too.

    I've been busy as a one-armed paperhanger in a windstorm bidding and rebidding and rebidding and rebidding (yes, four times) a hotel project in Kyoto the last few months, and finally got a breather.

    Cheers.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Covington View Post
    Thanks, Chris. I enjoy your posts too.

    I've been busy as a one-armed paperhanger in a windstorm
    I don't even know what that means, but it sounds extreme. Glad you're getting a breather though.
    Woodworking is terrific for keeping in shape, but it's also a deadly serious killing system...

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