Newbie - Dust Collector - help!

[Adam Scoop]

I frequent another wood forum but felt like I'd get some opinions here as there seems to be quite a few discussions on the topic here and the answers have been quite forthcoming. I appreciate anyone's time and opinion on this matter.

I've put off getting a dust collector for many years thinking it was something I never really needed. (Vacuum up the dust and wood chips later mentality) Well, after reading many posts and a few websites out there on the matter, I've learned that was stupid thinking all along and I was possibly hurting not only my own health but possibly my boys. So... can you guys suggest a system for me to purchase and put together?

This is my shop:
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I would like to add a Cyclone system that will vent to the outside. I imagine I would only be able to vent to the right of the workshop which is fine. I'm no where near my neighbor.
I'd like to keep it under $1500 (including the ductwork) if possible. I assume I do not need it to collect "all" the dust as it will vent outside.

I own 8" jointer, 13" planer, tablesaw, CMS, Bandsaw, Router (everything has a standard 4" hole except the jointer currently has a 6".

[Joseph Tarantino]

i'd check out wood magazine. one of the 2013 issues contained a comparative test of several cyclones and a few single stage DCs. they rated an oneida cyclone and a PM single stage as top tools. i thought it was a well constructed analysis with sound, fact based recommendations. with a jointer and a planer, i'd look into building a pre separator that employs a thien baffle. many WWs use the separator with the jointer and planer but eschew them for tools that produce primarily dust, like TSs and bandsaws. sure you'll get loads of suggestions here, but suggest you check out this site for some great info on inexpensive and effective pre-separators:

http://www.jpthien.com/cy.htm

[Adam Scoop]

i'd check out wood magazine. one of the 2013 issues contained a comparative test of several cyclones and a few single stage DCs. they rated an oneida cyclone and a PM single stage as top tools. i thought it was a well constructed analysis with sound, fact based recommendations. with a jointer and a planer, i'd look into building a pre separator that employs a thien baffle. many WWs use the separator with the jointer and planer but eschew them for tools that produce primarily dust, like TSs and bandsaws. sure you'll get loads of suggestions here, but suggest you check out this site for some great info on inexpensive and effective pre-separators:

http://www.jpthien.com/cy.htm

Thank you Joseph for your reply. I am speaking with Oneida in fact after your recommendation.

[Rod Sheridan]

Adam, there are only two benefits to a cyclone, neither of which you may need.

1) separation of particles. The cyclone separates out most of the particles to reduce filter plugging, Since you will vent outside you don't need this.

2) Two stage, so in most cyclones the dirty air doesn't go through the fan. This allows you to use things like floor sweeps where you may pick up metal objects such as nails, or blocks of wood. This may not be an issue for you.

A cheap and dirty bag type collector may be just fine if you put in a shelter outside..................Rod.

[Adam Scoop]

Adam, there are only two benefits to a cyclone, neither of which you may need.

1) separation of particles. The cyclone separates out most of the particles to reduce filter plugging, Since you will vent outside you don't need this.

2) Two stage, so in most cyclones the dirty air doesn't go through the fan. This allows you to use things like floor sweeps where you may pick up metal objects such as nails, or blocks of wood. This may not be an issue for you.

A cheap and dirty bag type collector may be just fine if you put in a shelter outside..................Rod.

well... I can vent outside but I can't place the entire collector outside. Not allowed to have unsightly objects outside the house viewable from the road.
I didn't know you could use a cyclone also a tool to pick up loose things on the floor. I actually like this feature!

[Joseph Tarantino]

Thank you Joseph for your reply. I am speaking with Oneida in fact after your recommendation.

being nothing of an authority on dust collection, i hope you're looking into oneida as a result of either their reputation or reviewing the wood magazine article. good luck with your search. if you do decide on a cyclone, you might want to build your own, as a previous poster did. you might consider this unit:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cyclone-Sepa...item41635ebbf2

an acquaintance of mine has one and apparently likes it very much.

[glenn bradley]

I will assume your desire for a cyclone is to capture the bulk of the spoil prior to venting outside. If you don't have an issue with the spoil getting outside, skip the cyclone; they put quite a hit on your airflow for a given blower. Just compare the specs on almost any 3HP bagger versus a 3HP cyclone. I do have a cyclone but, I have to vent back into the shop. They are fabulous but, an unnecessary expense in cash and airflow if you do not really need it.

So back to assuming you do need one; Oneida, as stated, is top notch. I run a Grizzly but, the price gap has closed so much that, if I were to do it again, I would look at Clear-vue and Oneida. I do run ASTM-2729 (plastic) ducting and have been glad, many times, that I did. Changes are so easy and parts can be reused with relative ease as things evolve in the shop. Again, the price of sewer pipe has doubled and then some so, you will have to compare for today's prices. From my experience over the years, the ease of use and reuse would lean me towards plastic even if the price were the same. I know others feel strongly in other ways. Dust collection is like religion or sports to some folks, they become very passionate .

Dad runs a bag unit but, has cobbled together a top-hat to vent to the outside. This setup does not catch everything before it vents out to the world but, it catches enough to where the wind and mother nature carry off the spoil. You would never know he is venting on the side of the building facing the street, the residue is so minimal BUT, he's a turner so he makes much less dust than I do .

[Michael W. Clark]

Hi Adam,
If you are set on a cyclone, by all means go for it. The suppliers listed are generally well thought of. Another option rarely mentioned here is a drop-out chamber. It may or may not appeal to you. There was a thread several weeks ago where a gentleman had one connected. The drop-out chamber works by slowing the air down enough to allow the particulate to drop out. A cylone is actually applying a centrifugal force to collect the particles. The benefits to a drop-out chamber is that they can be built for little cost and that the pressure drop will be much less. This will allow you get more airflow at the hood than a cyclone system with the same fan. The downside is that a drop-out chamber will be less efficient than a cyclone for the same space. The efficiency may not be as important to you if you are venting outside. The drop-out should get everthing that is a nuissance (chipes and larger dust), but the fines will escape and be vented outside. It would also give the benefit of protecting the fan should you want to use floor sweeps. You won't go wrong with a cyclone, but thought I would throw this out there as an alternative since you are venting outside. You probably would want to avoid the drop out box if you were returning the air through the shop via filters.

Depending on your duct system, it is likely going to be more expensive than you think. One benefit to metal duct is that you get the odd sizes, particularly 5" and 7". Also, register boxes can be used for tapered hoods and reducing wye fittings are more readily available. It is generally self bonding/grounding so no extra wires are usually needed to dissipate any static charge build up (nuissance zaps). You will eventually want to increase the port sizes on your machines and possibly add additional collection points on some of the them. For example, the TS, BS, and RT can benefit from more than one DC port.

Mike

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Adam, I use the floor sweep near the bench for cleaning up hand tool shavings, and near the lathe for the shavings on the floor..........Rod.

[Sam Layton]

Hi Adam,

It seems that everyone has their opinions of what is needed or good. That is good. I am not an expert my any means, and only speaking from personal preference. I have had a 3 hp double bagger, and now I have a 3 hp Oneida cyclone. I can not vent outside, so a good filter is needed. A good friend of mine has a 3 hp Oneida and he vents his outside. My point is, that it does not matter if I am venting inside or outside, I personally would get a cyclone, no question. I have only had an Oneida so I can not speak of the others. I have had my Oneida for many years, and it still works like new.

When you buy ducting, I would recommend you buy HVAC in 26 gage. Much cheaper than the other types.

Sam

[Paul Wunder]

I read the Wood magazine review that they published earlier this year. It is NOT, in my opinion, a fair test; in fact it was heavily biased toward Oneida.

First of all, cyclones of different horsepower and impeller sizes were compared as equals. A major competitor, Clearvue Cyclones, was omitted from the testing pool because the editor said it was outside their price range. When I challenged this assumption, they responded that due to price changes the Clearvue was within their price range but they won't test it anyway.The Oneida that was tested for the article was the largest and most powerful of all cyclones that were tested and it had no direct competitor.

This is not to bash Oneida; they make a worthy product. My advice is to carefully review what owners have to say about their cyclones...not the magazine hype. There are very satisfied Clearvue owners and owners of other brands. There are many threads here on the Creek and also in the North Carolina Woodworking Forum. I found them very helpful.

Keep in mind that now that you recognize DC as a major problem I think you would like to solve it once. I do not think you can get a high quality cyclone AND duct work for under $1500. If you can get past that hurdle you can certainly get a system that you are happy with.

[Alan Bienlein]

Just remember that that article didn't include the ClearView cyclone again so it's not a true comparison. I actually built my own as at the time just couldn't afford the cost for a cyclone all at once.

As for my duct work I bought it all at the the home centers and made all my own wye's.

[Thomas Canfield]

It looks like your shop is like a single car garage size. I would think that one of the Oneida cyclone, 1 HP or even 1 1/2 HP on a mobile stand with a hose to connect to the different pieces of equipment might be the best and by far cheapest to avoid all the ductwork, fittings, and gates. My original installation cost about as much for all the ductwork system as the actual cyclone cost and then there was the installation. I did move the original and installed the ductwork in new shop, but it was a lose call.

[marty shultz]

Can you enclose the clearview? It's much quieter in the shop with the DC outside.

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