Table Saw Blade Guard Safety

[Bruce Golling]

I am somewhat new to woodworking, and therefore have basic questions, so please bear with me. I am considering purchasing a SawStop Contractors saw. I have been doing research online and it looks to me like it is a pretty good, albeit expensive saw. Here is my question...Is a good quality saw safe enough if the blade guard, riving knife and pawls are used? My mistakes usually involve trying to hurry a little and just not paying enough attention. Does a blade guard compensate for those errors.
My wife wants me to get rid of my $100 Ryobi saw and get a saw stop. I probably will, but I would like to know how much safety the blade guard adds.
Thanks for your tolerance to my newby-ness.

Bruce

[mike holden]

[QUOTE= My mistakes usually involve trying to hurry a little and just not paying enough attention. Does a blade guard compensate for those errors.
[/QUOTE]

Nope!

Any and all saws require care and attention when used. Period.

Mike

[Michael W. Clark]

If you are hurrying and not paying attention, you can get hurt quickly and badly with most all power tools. A guard or a sawstop is not going to take the place of respect for the equipment.

I will say that if you are upgrading from a small benchtop saw you are inherently going to be in a position to get better results and safer cuts (if you take the time to align the saw properly and perform the cuts in the correct way). Primarily because the contractors saws will be heavier, have a better fence, and hold their adjustments more rigidly (the key one being the alignment of the fence to the blade).

Mike

[glenn bradley]

I think Bruce may just have used bad wording. No one should operate a dangerous machine if they tend to hurry or have an attention issue. All that aside, the best safety device in the world cannot defeat us amazing humans. Given proper safety practices, a riving knife, splitter, pawls, blade guard, push blocks and even a Saw Stop only increase the level of safety. That's why they call them accidents; because if we're doing everything right and something still goes wrong, it is an anomaly.

I have a Saw Stop and I use the blade guard. Their thicker material, narrower design certainly lets it get used for things my previous guards would never allow. On previous saws I used splitters and guards whenever I could. I also followed the standard safety methods that are discussed almost anywhere there's a discussion of woodworking. Take your time, pay attention, play safe and count to ten for life .

P.s. I'm not a Saw Stop nazi but, if you can afford it, I'd get the Saw Stop.

[jack forsberg]

guarding viewed as individual add on is a mistake. guarding is use in unison. The saw stop does nothing for kick back. this is mostly to do with its fence.

A little bit of history. Short rip fences appeared before the turn of the century - the 20th century. Riving knives and crown guards appeared on saws in the UK following the 1925 Board of Trade directive with retrofitting being mandated in trade premises in the 1930s (I believe). it is not a bad idea to view what is imposed on trade users as it is generally imposed on the grounds of safety and after due consideration .

The riving knife/short rip fence are to protect you from the effects of reaction timber. They are nothing at all to do with being able to use a machine which is "wrongly set-up", because a machine which is correctly set-up has a correctly adjusted, properly sized riving knife, a crown guard, dust extraction, a short-position rip fence, a run off table and is supplied with at least two push sticks.


With all respect many people who purchase/ or get with there saw a long fences such as the bessy are simply unaware of the dynamics of table saw kickbacks. There is an implied understanding that the manufacturer has taken reasonable steps to ensure a safe product, however in the case of the American aftermarket fences this is not so. The cost of incorporating a 2-position sliding rip fence plate (with a low position to allow the use of the rip fence for narrow strip ripping without the need for the crown guard to be removed or the blade set high) would potentially be relatively low, but the American manufacturers have to date ignored the obvious safety shortcomings of their products with the obvious exception of the Delta Unifence, . Surely I'm not alone in thinking that any aftermarket device should incorporate the same basic safety devices that I see on old wadkin oliver or martin saws .

Yet another high-tech gizmo to dazzle those who have gadgetitis! The point is it STILL cannot protect you from a kickback (one of the major injury risks on a table saw) - which is the result of rising teeth at the rear of the blade digging into the timber. If you have a properly designed saw with sufficient power, a sharp blade, a riving knife, a decent crown guard (the last two both mandatory on new saws in the UK) and a European short rip fence, and you have bothered to learn how to use your saw properly - i.e. with push blocks, push sticks, etc so that your fingers are always at least 10 to 12 inches away from the blade - then this device is just about superfluous. I think that the reason it was introduced in the USA is because American saws are to say the least safety deficient, the design of the guards being the same as 40 years ago - in Europe they have, moved on.


The SawStop was introduced for a market where people routinely remove guards and splitters and some use dado heads (again without the use of guards). Anyone formally trained in the use of the table saw should be able to tell you exactly why a SawStop will do little or nothing to protect you over and above the proper use of riving knife/crown guard/short rip fence/push sticks combination. It seems to be a piece of equipment designed to protect people who are willing to take wholly unnecessary risks in the operation of a potentially dangerous machine (and let's face it any woodworking machine used incorrectly is just that). If trained you are taught the use of the short rip fence, crown guard, riving knife and push sticks and it is drilled into to you time and again that "fingers should never be nearer the blade more than 12 inches". During training were you to break this rule you would find yourself barred from using any machine unsupervised until the supervisors were satisfied that you had learned the safe use of equipment. And surely that's the point. SawStop is designed to protect your fingers when you've already placed yourself in easily avoidable danger. use a TS correctly and SawStop becomes superfluous. My contention is that safety training is more relevant than any number of add-on gadgets of potentially limited application.

jack
English machines

[John TenEyck]

If your nature is to hurry and not pay attention, then you need to change your way of working or find another hobby. Seriously, those two traits are just about guaranteed to lead to an accident. The table saw probably accounts for more accidents than any other piece of wood working equipment, but they all can do serious damage unless you use caution and are fully engaged every time you turn one on.

John

[Sam Murdoch]

I don't own a Saw Stop but I would like to encourage you to buy one if you can afford it. They are well designed and built - or so I understand - and will be a huge upgrade to your shop. I especially encourage the SS for a casual use TS user. One thing to be running a TS everyday with the rhythm and awareness that comes with practice and practice and another thing entirely to be coming into the shop for a few hours on Saturday to hurry up and finish that present for your kid's birthday next weekend.

You are likely to read more posts here that will just tell you to pay attention, be aware, and use all the safety devices that are available with your new saw, etc. Michael Clark's post above in regards to owning a well tuned better saw will invariably enhance your safety is spot on but Glenn Bradley's comment - "Given proper safety practices, a riving knife, splitter, pawls, blade guard, push blocks and even a Saw Stop only increase the level of safety." pretty much sums it up. If I ever buy another TS it will be a Saw Stop even after 30+ years behind soooo many kinds of TS good, better, great and awful. A Saw Stop is cheap insurance. And what John TenEyck says +1.

Having said all that - Not knowing what kind of woodworking you intend to do I would also encourage you to consider buying a good quality bandsaw rather than a TS. I am new to this revelation myself but having just started using a 14" bandsaw with a carbide tooth blade I am sold on how much and how much more the bandsaw can do than can the TS. Admittedly there are some things that the TS can do that are totally impractical if not impossible with the band saw but for a hobbyist I can't imagine how the bandsaw would fail you. PLUS it is a hugely safer machine. (yeah, yeah, I know it can hurt you too but compared to a TS?...) You can then keep the Ryobi for occasional TS use if you ever need it. If you intend to build projects with plywood I would add a good track saw. Buying a good bandsaw and a track saw will leave money in your hands to buy some really nice other shop essentials without noticeably compromising your woodworking abilities.

[Erik Loza]

....My mistakes usually involve trying to hurry a little and just not paying enough attention...

'Nuff said right there ^^^

My rules for working with machinery:
1.) Never with alcohol in the picture (still amazed by friends who say, "Ok, now time for a beer"...).
2.) Never when tired/angry/in a hurry/etc. It can wait...
3.) Trying to use a dull tool for the job is just as bad as not using the factory safety equipment. Beside, like I always tell my wife, "Money spent on tools doesn't count..."

Grandpa was a machinist/die maker for the US Army for many years, never had a major injury from his trade. Dad was a contractor, then a Industrial Arts teacher. Ditto: No injuries. Their machines never had riving knives, pawls, or any of that stuff. They just knew to work safely.

Erik Loza
Minimax USA

[Stephen Cherry]

One thing to remember about a table saw is that if the piece of wood gets twisted a little between the fence and blade, it can be shot back like a rocket.

With this in mind, there are a few things you can do to not be shot. First, don't stand in the line of fire, always stand to the side of the line or cut of a saw, particularly when using the fence. Next, use a riving knife. This will help, but is not a complete solution. When using the fence as a measure for crosscuts, always use a piece of material against the fence to measure with so that when the cut is made, the wood is not touching the fence.

[Keith Hankins]

Ok first let me say if your wife insists that should end the argument right there! (TIC). No seriously, don't mistake the insurance policy for being foolproof. First, If human flesh comes in contact with the spinning blade the device will minimize any harm. However, if you don't have a gard on and use the splitter, you can get just as badly injured with kickback. Early in my woodworking days, I sustained a close call with a kickback. Working tired and took my eye off the ball so to speak and it happened. Use the safety equipment. Now there are times with the devices must be removed and in those cases extra care needs to be taken. So yes you need the safety equipment. I will also go further and recommend the grr-riper by microjig. Not cheap, but when cutting it controls both sides of the blade and keeps positive pressure on both cut and offcut sides. Great to keep kickback at bay. I use two to keep the hands safely away and no kickbacks. One more piece of advice from an old-timer. Don't be afraid of the TS but respect it. My old shop teacher told me something I've kept with me for a long time. Never Ever take your eye off of the spinning blade! I've managed to keep all digits through the years being careful. I would not mind having a sawstop though well made and the insurance policy would be nice.

http://www.microjig.com/

[Mel Fulks]

Every guy I've worked with who lost too many fingers to wave a coherent by-by said he "was in a hurry" when the "accident happened". I'm sure saw-stops are good...but it seems to me the hot dogs slow down just a bit before they get to the blade ...just to play it safe as some of the early hot dogs were nicked.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I chose to purchase a sawstop after running into four or five people that managed to seriously injure themselves on a table saw based on blade to flesh contact. If that happened to me, it would seriously affect my ability to earn a living, so, I traded in my old saw with few safety features for a SawStop. LOVE the SawStop, great saw and the best assembly instructions I have ever seen.

That said, I know many people that have experienced kickback (and similar accidents) on a saw, and I assume that is a much more common injury method than skin to blade contact. I used a microjig product to keep the wood from closing on the saw blade as one tool, but that is not as good as a good riven knife. Any decent saw these days should have a good riven knife.

The blade guard keeps your hand away from the blade, and it can help with dust collection.

Safe practices is the best defense, but I view the safety features as something to protect me when I screw up.

If you are not set on the skin sensing technology, any new modern saw should get you most of the way there (in case you find a good deal), but, obviously I considered the extra safeguard a good expense.

I also wanted a saw with the motor in the cabinet so that it would not be as available to any young children that happened to be near the saw when it was on (not that this is a regular occurrence), but, an exposed motor is an exposed motor. My previous saw had that as well.

[jack forsberg]

i wanted a saw with all the modern safety features like a true riving knife an sliding rip plate fence and an over arm crown/ blade guard.
so i got a wadkin PK that was over 75 years old. best is i got for $100.
rm001.jpg

jack
English machines

[Keith Hankins]

You sir .....well you suck! Just kidding. What a lovely saw! Old IRON Rules! Whats that nice old BS in the background. PIC's please!

[jack forsberg]

You sir .....well you suck! Just kidding. What a lovely saw! Old IRON Rules! Whats that nice old BS in the background. PIC's please!

Keith its a 1952 16"with 12" resaw and 2 hp Bursgreen from England. Bursgreen was taken over by Wadkin when they bought out Sagar in 1956 and was to later become the famous Wadkin Bursgeen most know of. I can tell you this the older Bursgeen kit is way better than the Wadkin Bursgeen and to tell the truth i like it better. Very hard to come by as the Co really only put out machines of this type for 5 or 6 years before thew take over . this saw did become the model BZB in later years under a Wadkin bursgreen tag.



jack
English machines