It's subjective I would suggest. There is no right or wrong.
I use a Senco 15 gauge.
I have and use a 18 gauge......and a crown stapler....
It's subjective I would suggest. There is no right or wrong.
I use a Senco 15 gauge.
I have and use a 18 gauge......and a crown stapler....
Last edited by Ken Fitzgerald; 08-13-2013 at 10:16 AM.
Ken
So much to learn, so little time.....
Thanks for all the input.
Most if not all the cabinets I build for my home will be done with Kreg screws and taking the time to do glue-ups. I want a nailer to build cabinets for others. My wife and I work day jobs and are volunteering to build cabinets for others. I will not have the luxury of waiting 24-48 hours for a glue-up. I am expecting to be able to pull of a build within an 8 hour window. And for utility cabinets they will certainly also be built with a nailer.
My friend Fred taught me that relationships are like fine tool makers, what you pay is but a small part, what matters most is the time, passion, and care that was spent and the joy that you have.
18 gauge as most have said.
If you don't have a compressor, take a look at the new Ryobi 18V nailer at $129. Did someone say Ryobi? It got excellent reviews so I tried it so I don't have to schlep my compressor up and down the stairs or even set it up in my shop. I don't have a lot of use on it so far, but I like it. No compressor needed, no hoses, etc. I also own a PC gun and a pinner, but I think I'll be using the Ryobi more often because it doesn't require any set up
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-18-...3#.Ugn8623Jr-A
24-48 hours for a glue up? What glue are you using? The only glues I've ever used that required beyond maybe 60 minutes are plastic resin glues and those are way overkill for building cabinets.
Boxes--I rabbet/dado, glue and screw. Face frames I use pocket hole screws. I attach face frames to the boxes with glue, held by a couple pocket hole screws on each side and top/bottom (I always use end panels because I think it looks better. All that stuff stays clamped for 10 minutes max while I drill and drive screws. My experience is that building boxes is one of the fastest parts of a cabinetry project other than MAYBE face frames, but they require a lot more stock prep. And within the box-building phase, assembling the boxes as I've described takes significantly less time than cutting material to size, cutting rabbets and dados, drilling shelf pin holes, and any other prep (eg cutting notches for toekicks)
For boxes, I suppose you could substitute nails for screws but any racking force is going to pull them right out. And its been my experience that any nailer shooting long enough nails to do much good in a joint like that is likely to blow out a decent percentage (I'd find > 0 unacceptable) when the nail finds an abnormality inside the wood or plywood and follows that. I wouldn't trust a hanging box that wasn't screwed myself. I've heard a couple stories about factory-build glued and nailed/stapled boxes falling apart and doing major damage to the contents and what was below. One story, the person lost virtually every dish, a huge slab of granite and a dishwasher (cheaper to replace the whole thing than buy a new door).
If you want to save time building boxes, spend the money on tools that speed sheet goods cutting. On my last project, I built a large kitchen's worth of upper boxes in a 10 hour or so day using Festool gear to make all the cuts, a Kreg Foreman machine, and a line boring machine borrowed from a friend, and the techniques listed above. Face frames had been previously built and finished.
I've only used 18 ga as well in woodworking, similar experience as Matt with longer brads. The short brads (5/8") are good for what Alan said on the panel doors. I built some shop cabinets with this technique. I've thought about a stapler for the backs, but just not sure what to get. When I built my wetbar cabinets, I used #6 screws on the backs that were rabbeted into the sides + glue. I'm just a hobbiest, not sure what the production guys use.
I have a straight 16 ga that is good for baseboards, crown, other large trim, light framing, etc. A pinner is great for smaller details. Depending on what you are doing, the pin holes don't have to be filled and are not noticable after staining/finishing.
My vote would be for a good 18ga and crown stapler and/or pinner. I've heard good things about Rigid and Senco. I have a porter cable and have been very happy with it as well.
All of our casework is assembled with glue and clamps...no mechanical fasteners involved.
We use 15/16 gauge for general construction finish work (crown/case/base).
Scott Vroom
I started with absolutely nothing. Now, thanks to years of hard work, careful planning, and perseverance, I find I still have most of it left.
I don't use nailers much for cabinetry/carcass construction. I'll occasionally shoot a 15 gage nail or an 18 gage brad to quickly tack something for convenience, but the actual construction is done with glue and countersunk screws. Now if you need to do your build in-situ, then the nailer is going to be helpful, but the real strength is from the glue. For tacking face frames onto carcasses, I use a 23 gage pinner to hold things until the glue sets, sometimes with a few biscuits to assist with alignment.
--
The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
Buy a Kreg pocket hole jig and some clamps. You can make an entire kitchen's worth of cabinets using nothing but pocket screws and "maybe" some glue. You just have to be strategic about hiding the pocket holes (i.e. tops of cabinets, bottoms of cabinets, bottoms of shelves, etc.). Check out Kreg's website for some ideas. They have lots of videos and plans there. If you want to be hard core, get a tablesaw with a dado stack and glue/clamp your cabinets together. Or, buy a Festool Domino machine and do it all with Dominos. I wouldn't just nail your cabinets together, as but joints are weaker than all of my previous suggestions. I usually reach for my Kreg jig first, especially if I'm just throwing together something quick and dirty.
- Jason
Hey, all the home improvement (crash) shows build in-place cabinets with glue and a nail gun. So it must be ok, right? Personally, I have 2 nailers, a Stanley/Bostitch 18 ga brad gun for most work and a Bostitch 15 ga angle finish nail gun for casings. I may ask Santa for a 23 ga pinner though. Only time I use them on cabs is gluing and nailing the backs on (in a rabbit) where I will use a 1-3/8" 18 ga brad for 3/4" backs.
Last edited by Ole Anderson; 08-13-2013 at 11:15 PM.
Well for half the price I would just go to Lowes and purchase the Campbell Hausfeld 5-Piece Nailer Kit for $137.40 (which I did last week)! That way you're prepared for any project that comes up.
Perhaps not the best brand out there, but they seem to get pretty good reviews overall. And for that price, it's a no-brainer.
I use an 18 ga brad gun from HFT for attaching mouldings (mine also shoots 1/4" crown staples which is nice for rough/utility work) and a 15 ga Hitachi for heavier work.
What's nice about the guns is that (for example) you can hold the moulding in place with one hand and then shoot it in place. No need for a bunch of clamps usually, and you don't get everything flopping around like you would if you tried to hand nail it. Cuts assembly time by half or even 75% in some cases.
The nails provide some shear strength, but most of your tensile strength comes from the glue no matter what, anyway. Thus you can think of the nails as "cheap clamps" that you don't have to remove after the glue sticks.
I wouldn't be without these tools. Once you have them, you wonder how you ever got by (or didn't go insane) without them.
Edit: If you get one for trim work, make sure it has the feature that when you pull the trigger, the actuator fires ... but it doesn't reset until you release the trigger. This way, you can move the gun away from the workpiece before you release the trigger. Guns that both shoot and reset the driver in one cycle can cause dents in the work piece because the tool gets driven against the workpiece by inertia when the driving mechanism resets. Most of them seem to have this feature now, but a few years ago, they didn't.
Last edited by Jacob Reverb; 08-14-2013 at 8:17 AM.
So Shawn, have we given you a clear direction as to which nail gun you should buy?
Larry J Browning
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; Those who understand binary and those who don't.
I have the large Senco 15 ga finish gun, Bostich 15ga finish gun, Hitachi 18ga, Porta Cable 18ga, Senco 23ga pinner & Grex 23ga pinner.....they all have their uses also a Dewalt cordless 15 ga finish which I only use for pine or poplar because that's about all it can set the nail in....Wish I knew that before I bought it.
Last edited by Jay Jolliffe; 08-14-2013 at 8:40 AM.
16, 18, and 23 ga. nailers, 14" narrow crown stapler are in my shop. Never had a need for the 15 ga.
On the other hand, I still have five fingers.
I am not as religious as the others about metal in my wood.
I think the 16 is a poor compromise between an 18 and a 15. If u need it fast and strong, get a 15. I think this is perfect for closet cabinets or painted cabinets that wont take a lot of weight.
For kitchen cabs, i agree with the others. They are too visible and bear a lot of weight. So use glue, pocketscrews, dados, dowels or dominos.
You might look into the jessem dowel jig. It is in your price range and will make you life easier.