type of glue for stave core

[mreza Salav]

Quick question: would Titebond III be good for glue-up of stave core (for a door) as well as the veneer/skin over the core?
I also have west system epoxy (but is messy and would rather avoid). I hear other suggestions (resin type) but wonder if can
get away with Titebond III.

TIA

[Chris Padilla]

I think it would be my #1 choice for gluing up the door but I'd be leery of using it for securing veneer. How thick a veneer are we talking? For veneers, you generally want a glue that dries very hard like a plastic resin glue or any of the veneer glues joewoodworker offers on his site.

[mreza Salav]

Chris, the veneer is 5/32" thick (so half way between 1/8" and 3/16"). I suppose you mean Titebond III for your #1 choice?
I have never worked with plastic resin glue. Would epoxy (west system) be a good choice here? I was thinking of using that for the M/T joins anyway.

[John TenEyck]

I used Weldwood Plastic Resin glue when I built some stave core doors, for everything - glue up of the stave cores, gluing on the veneer skins, and gluing the M&T joints. I didn't want to take a chance with the creep that can occur with Titebond and other aliphatic glues. Epoxy would also be a good choice for gluing the joints, but I wouldn't use it for the other areas. FWIW, I wouldn't go any thicker with your veneer.

John

[Mel Fulks]

Titebond is fine for the staves and faces. I like plastic resin glue and have made many doors using it for the whole job.The
stiles are straighter with the faces glued with Titebond because its not water based . If you insist on using plastic resin use
the Unibond 800 two part glue. Its specific purpose is for jobs where water should not be introduced. Titebond can be thinned with water for some jobs ,but not stile faces. Bringing in water ,you will get some stiles too bowed to use regardless of how straight the cores ,cauls,and presses are. It's the water.

[jack forsberg]

Mo

tite bond III for the core and Resorcinol for the face stock Very easy to work with and water clean up. this is a full water proof glue type I

its a powder(has a shelf life)you mix with water and has an long open time. you only mix what you need as it a catalyzed cure. so deep laminations cure well and it will cure under water too i believe.

very little creep if any. I use it for bent lams because the spring back is almost nothing

[Mel Fulks]

I know the creep issue is often mentioned ,but unless the use of the word has changed it exists mainly with white glue.
White glue shrinks as it cures and can actually cause a slight misalignment of surfaces. I know its frustrating to get conflicting advice ,consult the manufacturers.

[Peter Quinn]

Your choice for the staves. But if you use a water based glue you need let it rest to fully equilibriate post glue up, and titebond III takes 72 minimum to fully cross link, so glue them up, pull clamps, scrape and wait, a week is a good idea. I finger jointed my individual staves, for that I used tite bond III on suggestion from Jor Callhoun, idea being that the water swells the fingers and locks the joints, worked like a charm. I also used tite bond for the edg glue of the staves IIR. But for the skins I used tite bond PU glue, no water, and I didn't wet one face, plenty of moisture in kd lumber to cure urethane glues as it turns out, and minimal foaming. I would have used unibond, but its minimum operating temp is around 70 degrees, I glued the staves in winter and my shop is low 60's on a good day. Skip the epoxy, very expensive, massive overkill. Probably work fine but hardly required.

[jack forsberg]

Your choice for the staves. But if you use a water based glue you need let it rest to fully equilibriate post glue up, and titebond III takes 72 minimum to fully cross link, so glue them up, pull clamps, scrape and wait, a week is a good idea. I finger jointed my individual staves, for that I used tite bond III on suggestion from Jor Callhoun, idea being that the water swells the fingers and locks the joints, worked like a charm. I also used tite bond for the edg glue of the staves IIR. But for the skins I used tite bond PU glue, no water, and I didn't wet one face, plenty of moisture in kd lumber to cure urethane glues as it turns out, and minimal foaming. I would have used unibond, but its minimum operating temp is around 70 degrees, I glued the staves in winter and my shop is low 60's on a good day. Skip the epoxy, very expensive, massive overkill. Probably work fine but hardly required.

Peter i do not have any of the problems you mention with water glues during glue up of cores and faces all in one go. I let them set a bit but have never had a week do so. As to water glues or any glue ups like this it needs to be balanced so both faces are the same material and glued at the same time. every thing get worked again to final size anyway after the staves are made.

Now if there really wide i can see some concern there. I do so little stave that i just use full length core stock in #2 pine 4/4 KD. Of all the glues i have use for exterior PU is the only one that has failed for me. i find it a mess to work with a frankly not very strong IMO. I would use type III way before i would use PU because it just has not held up for me to weather.

[mreza Salav]

hmmm...it seems I would be fine with Titebond III for stave cores and possibly for the skins. I don't thin it (straight from the container).
I hate PU glue and the mess it creates. I have plenty of Titebond III and have west system epoxy and if I don't have to buy another type of glue for this task
I'd rather use what I have.
Stiles are 6.5" wide and the rails are between 6.5"-9.5" wide (top one to the bottom one). Since I don't hear any objection to TB III I suppose
I'll be safe to use it for the veneers too, but if I'm better off with epoxy I don't mind doing an overkill here (it's only one entry door I'll ever make!).

[John TenEyck]

It's not really the water that causes the staves to bend/bow, etc. it's the unbalanced construction people often use. Regardless, I don't use yellow glues for the staves because they do creep, despite what some may have posted. The are unsuitable for bent laminations for this very reason, which, to me, means they are unsuitable for any application where constant stress is being applied, like a door hanging on its hinges. Many people have successfully built doors with yellow glue, however, so the actual stresses may be pretty low. Still, why take a chance, the resorcinol glues are easy enough to use and cheap enough as well.

John

[Mel Fulks]

Jack,the company where I learned to make stave core doors used water based pr glue for many years before I got there .
We had a large old acme thread press and often made all the doors for the better jobs. We glued them up 1/8 inch thicker than finish size in order to do straightening where needed,a few would be too bowed,and we would use those for top rails.By using Titebond unthined I can make straighter stiles than before.
You wrote you don't make many,glad you have had good luck. A test :,take a thin strip of wood and trim it to where it fits and is held between two points without deflecting. Now remove it, dampen it and put it back. It will be bowed but you will not be able to measure the tiny bit of lengthening caused by the water. It doesn't take much. The glue makes that increase permanent. The pu glues have been well tested and some have been certified by independent labs to be used under water for structural use.The messiness is mainly due to excessive foaming from adding water. I know water is
reccomended on some of the labels but it is only needed for extremely dry wood. The added water can also reduce the
strength. Check with the technicians .

[mreza Salav]

Ok, I'll have to find a place that sells that plastic resin glue then (here in Canada).
Any tip/warning I should be aware of using that for the first time in an important project? I don't want to screw up the parts after so much time invested in preparing them (let alone I want to preseve my stock of Honduras Mahogany as much as possible).

[jack forsberg]

Ok, I'll have to find a place that sells that plastic resin glue then (here in Canada).
Any tip/warning I should be aware of using that for the first time in an important project? I don't want to screw up the parts after so much time invested in preparing them (let alone I want to preseve my stock of Honduras Mahogany as much as possible).

LV used to sale it but any boat repair shop would have it Mo.

[mreza Salav]

Jack, is this what you are talking about: http://www.amazon.ca/00203-Weldwood-.../dp/B001003J16

Given the different suggestions on what to use for the veneers (avoid water based glues or not) I'm a bit confused/concerned.
My understanding was Epoxy is the ultimate (stronger than all resin glues) and would be Ok in this application (although pricy). I'm Ok with that if it is a safter choice here....