automotive wiring splice and solder..???

[Brian Elfert]

Isn't high temp wire mostly about the insulation? Is the wire itself really any different? Dennis' problem seems to be the wire itself breaking.

[Chuck Wintle]

Polytetrafluoroethylene or PTFE Insulated Wire

High dielectric strength and volume resistivity unaffected by thermal aging.
Very low dissipation factor unaffected by exposure to humidity.
Extremely low dielectric constant unaffected by temperature, frequency and humidity.
Extremely high operating temperature

[Jim Koepke]

My vote goes to changing the wire. If it heats up enough to melt copper, it will melt solder.

Your wire may have become what is sometimes called passivated. This takes place on the molecular level and can raise the wire's resistance. Resistance creates heat. It will also keep solder from adhering.

New wire of a heavier gauge will be cheaper and less headache than trying to fix something that wants to stay broken.

The next question is something drawing more current now than it did originally or is it just a wire failing?

jtk

[Stephen Cherry]

Also, don't ask me how I know, but electrical fires are no fun while riding a motorcycle.

[Dennis Peacock]

Here are some pics to give you a better idea of what I've cut out and quick crimped together to just get it going for now. I'm researching how to fix this more permanent like.



And one more from a little further back....BTW....all this is under the drivers seat.

[Jim Koepke]

Just a reminder based on British vehicle electrical systems:

Electrical Theory by Joseph Lucas:
"Positive ground depends upon proper circuit functioning, the transmission of negative ions by retention of the visible spectral manifestation known as "smoke". Smoke is the thing that makes electrical circuits work; we know this to be true because every time one lets the smoke out of the electrical system, it stops working."

jtk

[ray hampton]

do these wires move around and maybe wear thru. the insulation then short OUT

[Chuck Wintle]

Just a reminder based on British vehicle electrical systems:



jtk

a friend of mine once told me that BSA motorcycles had 3 positions for the light switch...flicker, smoke and melt.

[ray hampton]

how close was the fire to the gasoline tank ?

[Art Mann]

Based on the photos, I retract my previous comments. The wiring harness needs replacing. Anything less risks being stranded somewhere ... or worse.

[Mike Cutler]

You're getting a cold joint Dennis.

Strip wires and clean with Isopropyl alcohol.
Pretin wires if possible.
Mechanically affix wires together.
Attach hemostats on both sides of joint to act as heat sink.
Apply flux.
Tin soldering iron with 60/40 rosin core solder.
Hold iron to wires.
Apply 60/40 solder to iron tip until solder begins to flow and forms a "bridge" with the iron and wires, then move it to the wires. 60/40 will start to flow at about 375 degrees. It doesn't take as much heat as people think, and excess heat can cause a joint to scale. Typically you're looking for just enough heat to form the bridge and be in and out in 3-5 secs.
Let joint cool.

I tend to agree with Art though, but I've seen and repaired worse. Those pic's show a joint that has been repaired previously, a few times incorrectly, and now the wires have probably got oxidants and contaminants in the strands that has migrated under the insulation. You need to cut back beyond all discolored wire/insulation and graft in an entirely new section.
If you were closer we could redo those butt splices. They need to be a "gas free" splice, and those are not. They look line inline automotive splices from a kit.
See if you can locate some RayChem splices, AMP PIDG butt splices, or Solistrand crimps and heat shrink to redo those inline butt splices.

[Dennis Peacock]

how close was the fire to the gasoline tank ?

6" away....just to the left in the pics.

[Dennis Peacock]

You're getting a cold joint Dennis.

Strip wires and clean with Isopropyl alcohol.
Pretin wires if possible.
Mechanically affix wires together.
Attach hemostats on both sides of joint to act as heat sink.
Apply flux.
Tin soldering iron with 60/40 rosin core solder.
Hold iron to wires.
Apply 60/40 solder to iron tip until solder begins to flow and forms a "bridge" with the iron and wires, then move it to the wires. 60/40 will start to flow at about 375 degrees. It doesn't take as much heat as people think, and excess heat can cause a joint to scale. Typically you're looking for just enough heat to form the bridge and be in and out in 3-5 secs.
Let joint cool.

I tend to agree with Art though, but I've seen and repaired worse. Those pic's show a joint that has been repaired previously, a few times incorrectly, and now the wires have probably got oxidants and contaminants in the strands that has migrated under the insulation. You need to cut back beyond all discolored wire/insulation and graft in an entirely new section.
If you were closer we could redo those butt splices. They need to be a "gas free" splice, and those are not. They look line inline automotive splices from a kit.
See if you can locate some RayChem splices, AMP PIDG butt splices, or Solistrand crimps and heat shrink to redo those inline butt splices.

Mike,
Your info and guidance is exactly what I've been looking / hoping for. I know almost ZERO about this type of stuff, but I do know enough to know that my last fix at this spot was a "get me by for now" fix. I can see oxidation and stuff under the stripped back wire insulation. I just need to figure out how to splice in and buy a soldering gun or something that has enough heat to solder what I need done.

Thank you for your detailed info Mike.!!! Much appreciated.

[ray hampton]

Mike,
Your info and guidance is exactly what I've been looking / hoping for. I know almost ZERO about this type of stuff, but I do know enough to know that my last fix at this spot was a "get me by for now" fix. I can see oxidation and stuff under the stripped back wire insulation. I just need to figure out how to splice in and buy a soldering gun or something that has enough heat to solder what I need done.

Thank you for your detailed info Mike.!!! Much appreciated.

I always use a pocket knife to scrap the wires until the copper was bright before I solder the wires or use a wire nut to hold them together