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Thread: The Veritas Shooting Plane

  1. #1
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    The Veritas Shooting Plane

    OK folks, as promised, once Rob and Co released their brand spanking new shooting plane, I would publish a review of the plane for your entertainment and education


    The website link is here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...tingPlane.html





    Feel free to ask any questions.


    Regards from Perth


    Derek

  2. #2
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    Great analysis Derek. A very well thought out and well written evaluation! Very cool to see such a detailed comparison of it and the LN 51.

    I do, however, have one point of criticism. I find the comparison to a Bald Eagle inaccurate and also a blatant and feeble attempt to sell a "foreign" product to U.S patriots .

    Despite this insultingly obvious ploy I would like to extend to you an olive branch and offer you a comparison that universally appeals to true U.S. patriots...

    THE BAT MOBILE

    batmobile.jpg LVShootingPlane_html_22a7cc3a.jpg
    (the one from the 90s)




    No need to thank me...I just want what's best for all of us



    (Obviously, I'm just being silly per my usual m.o. Really a very good article and analysis)
    Last edited by Chris Griggs; 08-26-2013 at 8:19 PM.
    Woodworking is terrific for keeping in shape, but it's also a deadly serious killing system...

  3. #3
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    I think that we shall have to vote on that, Chris ... Batmobile vs Bald Eagle.

    However my understanding is that it is a bird of both the USA and Canada! The BE is not a foreign product.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  4. #4
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    Derek: A wonderful ( as usual ) comparison - As a lefty, I am impressed with the fact that Rob and gang came up with the southpaw option - - Deneb spent a lot of time with me and a LN # 51 last fall - a wonderful piece, but the right handed version makes it just ' not feel right ' to this lefty. That being said, I don't know if I can justify one at this time.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    I think that we shall have to vote on that, Chris ... Batmobile vs Bald Eagle.

    However my understanding is that it is a bird of both the USA and Canada! The BE is not a foreign product.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Touche'!

    Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

    Thanks for humoring my stupid sense of humor
    Woodworking is terrific for keeping in shape, but it's also a deadly serious killing system...

  6. #6
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    Wow Derek, what a great review. I bet there are a bunch of seriously miffed formites after reading the results you posted.

    Anyway, I wonder if the Veritas PM-V11 blades made for the Stanley 4-1/2 would work in the Lie-Nielsen #51? Rob would have plenty of sales if this was the case.

    Question for you though, would you recommend a blade with a bevel angle >25 degrees for side grain work? Lee Valley have the 38 degree PM blade available for the Jointer/Bevel-Up Smoother lines.

    Thanks again.
    "If you have all your fingers, you can convert to Metric"

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilton Ralphs View Post
    Wow Derek, what a great review. I bet there are a bunch of seriously miffed formites after reading the results you posted.

    Anyway, I wonder if the Veritas PM-V11 blades made for the Stanley 4-1/2 would work in the Lie-Nielsen #51? Rob would have plenty of sales if this was the case.

    Question for you though, would you recommend a blade with a bevel angle >25 degrees for side grain work? Lee Valley have the 38 degree PM blade available for the Jointer/Bevel-Up Smoother lines.

    Thanks again.
    Funny you should mention that. I've thought about getting a PM-V11 blade for my LN 51 since I've been so impressed with the PM-V11 blade I have in my 604 smoother. I see no reason why it wouldn't work as long as it's the proper width.

    Anywho, awesome review, Derek. I've noticed the same about the LN A2 blade on the plane, too. Every-so-slightly annoying that you only get wear on an itty-bitty portion of the blade, but hey. . .maybe I can talk the wife into allowing me to get a Tormek so that sharpening isn't such a pain (I dread having to re-grind primary bevels).

    Silly question, though. . .did you notice that the space in the toe for the adjustable mouth plate caught on anything until the full width of the board could register against the plane?
    The Barefoot Woodworker.

    Fueled by leather, chrome, and thunder.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Cruea View Post
    Funny you should mention that. I've thought about getting a PM-V11 blade for my LN 51 since I've been so impressed with the PM-V11 blade I have in my 604 smoother. I see no reason why it wouldn't work as long as it's the proper width.

    Anywho, awesome review, Derek. I've noticed the same about the LN A2 blade on the plane, too. Every-so-slightly annoying that you only get wear on an itty-bitty portion of the blade, but hey. . .maybe I can talk the wife into allowing me to get a Tormek so that sharpening isn't such a pain (I dread having to re-grind primary bevels).

    Silly question, though. . .did you notice that the space in the toe for the adjustable mouth plate caught on anything until the full width of the board could register against the plane?
    Adam, what are you using to regrind right now? Stones or sandpaper?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Cruea View Post
    Every-so-slightly annoying that you only get wear on an itty-bitty portion of the blade,
    Adam, it might be worth considering a ramped shooting board. I made one a while back, and while I don't think it really does much to improve the cut (some disagree here), it is nice that it helps to wear a slightly larger area of the blade. I think that's really the biggest thing to be gained from a ramped board, especially if you have a shooting plane that works with as much ease as the 51.
    Last edited by Chris Griggs; 08-27-2013 at 10:47 AM. Reason: changed "anything" to "much"
    Woodworking is terrific for keeping in shape, but it's also a deadly serious killing system...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Weaver View Post
    Adam, what are you using to regrind right now? Stones or sandpaper?
    A 220 Sigma II for now. I prefer doing a hollow-grind on my bench grinder, but I can never get the grind uniform (in other words, perfect).

    @Chris> I may do that. . .jack up the back of my current shooting board and see if it helps. Or, I could just learn to cut close to 90*. :-P
    The Barefoot Woodworker.

    Fueled by leather, chrome, and thunder.

  11. #11
    I wouldn't worry about it being perfect, it will get better as you go. Just leave the grinder set on the angle you use for a primary grind, at least on one wheel and over time you'll get quick with it. It took me at least three times as long to use a tormek as it does a dry grinder - it's money better spent elsewhere. If you have issues with burnt edges or something (probably not or you would've mentioned it), you can get a softer wheel if you don't already have one. I grind right to the edge, or extremely close to it. Did with a hard wheel and now that I have a soft surface grinder wheel, no issue. I spent more time getting water to the tormek, changing water, grading the wheel, playing with the microadjust, etc than I do for the entire grind now with a dry bench grinder. It was a novelty at first, but the novelty wears off. There's a reason you see a lot of 5+ year-old tormek machines with barely-used wheels, but not many complaining about their dry grinders. Derek will probably disagree but he is the only person I've ever seen who can grind with a dry grinder who disagrees.

    I think a lot of the rest of the folks buy them because they see demos that make them look better than they are, or the lure of "it cost $700, so it must be good". And then they get a dry grinder or go back to their dry grinder, anyway.

    Grinding with bench stones is OK, but it should be reserved for irons that were designed to be hand ground (laminated or thin irons). It's self torture to do thicker alloyed irons.

  12. #12
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    Funny you should mention that. I've thought about getting a PM-V11 blade for my LN 51 since I've been so impressed with the PM-V11 blade I have in my 604 smoother. I see no reason why it wouldn't work as long as it's the proper width.
    Hi Adam

    I am looking at trialling a PM-V11 blade in my #51. I suspect that the LV Stanley type is about the same thickness as the Smoothcut white steel blade.

    Adam, it might be worth considering a ramped shooting board. I made one a while back, and while I don't think it really does anything to improve the cut (some disagree here), it is nice that it helps to wear a slightly larger area of the blade. I think that's really the biggest thing to be gained from a ramped board, especially if you have a shooting plane that works with as much ease as the 51.
    Hi Chris

    The ramp does make a significant difference. I have demonstrated this many times. I do not see its primary benefit as spreading wear. The angle is simply too low. For spreading wear, I would stay with a flat board and what you could do is have a high fence, and then add a removable (series of) layers to the shooting board's platform (i.e. building it higher). Then the workpiece will be in line with an unused section of the plane blade.

    Derek will probably disagree but he is the only person I've ever seen who can grind with a dry grinder who disagrees.


    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post



    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    I fully expect that 10 other people will come along now and say that a dry grinder is slower than a tormek ---that's the nature of forums

    Sort of like when we wrote the double iron article on wood central. When I mentioned it to warren several months prior and said I could not get the plane to tear out and that I had been wrong about the heavy iron tight mouth steep angle deal being superior, there were crickets except for the people saying that nobody actually uses the double iron to control tearout. And then after we published the article, gobs of back seat rearward facing drivers said "oh, everyone knew that". "look in this book". "look in that book". "I learned that at a pallet factory, you guys are writing articles about stuff everyone knows".

    In your case, Derek, I know you do not post contrarian stuff just to create arguments. I still owe a video of the dry grind and hone in real time, but it will have to wait a week or two. We have more options here, practically, too, because our wood is softer. For the last three weeks, I have been using only a washita stone and stock planes with stock stanley irons (slowly trudging through kitchen cabinets, as I don't have a power jointer and get plenty of chance to process the door and face frame material with hand planes). I am enamored with the stock irons and washita (without any other finisher, just a bare leather strop) right now because I am working cherry. If I was sizing tropical blanks (like I had to do to make infill planes), i'd be less enamored with them. But so far, great. What should I do with the 50 or 75 or so sharpening stones I have ?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Weaver View Post
    What should I do with the 50 or 75 or so sharpening stones I have ?
    Really??? You have to ask???

    Must be you've forgotten my mailing address...
    I am never wrong.

    Well...I thought I was wrong once...but I was mistaken.

  15. #15
    Thanks, Derek for an excellent review. Really wanting to get my hands on some PM-V11 steel and try it out...

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