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Thread: The Veritas Shooting Plane

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold Burrell View Post
    Really??? You have to ask???

    Must be you've forgotten my mailing address...
    Got it, Harold. I'll send you something really obscure and that doesn't cut very fast nor get a tool very sharp

    Or one of the bags of stones I've come across that came out of a machinist shop - millions of little india stones that must've been used without oil until they were loaded, and then thrown away.

  2. #17
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    I think a dry grinder is slower than using a Tormek and I have nine mates who will attest to this.....
    "If you have all your fingers, you can convert to Metric"

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    The ramp does make a significant difference. I have demonstrated this many times. I do not see its primary benefit as spreading wear. The angle is simply too low. For spreading wear, I would stay with a flat board and what you could do is have a high fence, and then add a removable (series of) layers to the shooting board's platform (i.e. building it higher). Then the workpiece will be in line with an unused section of the plane blade.
    I knew you'd comment on that...I've read all your stuff in detail. Hence my note that some would disagree with my assertion. Could just be that my blades are so sharp there's just no room for improvement.

    In seriousness, I like my ramped shooting board, and am glad I made it. While I shouldn't say I don't think it does anything (sometimes things come out more black and white in when I write them then I intended), I haven't noticed a huge impact in ease of cut. For me, and I guess I should only speak for myself here..the difference is not all that significant. My mind may change someday...who knows... I have a good bit less experience with all this stuff than you.

    It could just be another case of the woods we work being pretty different. Shooting end grain cherry and walnut or even hard maple isn't really all that difficult to begin with so the benefit may just be less noticeable for me. For that matter, I also don't find that a low angle of attack makes that much difference. Again, not saying it makes no difference, your tests and many people experience clearly demonstrate that it does. Its just that from my perspective the difference is not as huge in practice for me as many people say. I have some nasty something that I think is hickory in my shop...I should do some side by side playing with that on my straight and ramped boards. May highlight the extent to which the ramp is of benefit.

    Of course, every little bit of improvement can add up to a big improvement, and I certainly wouldn't discourage people from using a ramped board and low angles.

    You make a good point about it not spreading where all that much as I was thinking, especially on the stuff the size that gets shot typically. On wider boards the spread of wear is a little more significant since your using more of the slope. Your shim idea is an intriguing one, worth experimenting with. In fact, were I to make a shooting board again I'd almost be inclined to skip the trouble of making it sloped and just make a regular one and a stack of shims for it.
    Last edited by Chris Griggs; 08-27-2013 at 11:33 AM.
    Woodworking is terrific for keeping in shape, but it's also a deadly serious killing system...

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold Burrell View Post
    Really??? You have to ask???

    Must be you've forgotten my mailing address...
    Now my wife is yelling at me cause I just shot coffee thru my nose all over the iPad.
    Man.....
    Paul

  5. #20
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    Derek,
    Thanks for another great review. It's a great plane too but I'm having a hard time justifying it... especially for a hybrid woodworker who already has a LV LAJ.
    Gary

  6. #21
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    Great review Derek, thanks.

    It also confirmed some of my thoughts about holding a plane when shooting. My shooting is mostly done with an LN #62 with a hot dog. Before getting this set up a #6 was used with a home made hot dog.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Muto View Post
    Derek,
    Thanks for another great review. It's a great plane too but I'm having a hard time justifying it... especially for a hybrid woodworker who already has a LV LAJ.
    +1

    I might pick up a PM-V11 blade for primarily shooting though.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilton Ralphs View Post
    I think a dry grinder is slower than using a Tormek and I have nine mates who will attest to this.....
    Hilton,

    Have you tried a stone like the 46 grit Norton 3x wheel? It grinds like chainsaw on a tree yet is quite cool due to its coarse grit. Still it only takes a few seconds (perhaps 10) to get a secondary bevel on a plane blade using a 1000g Shapton and perhaps 10 more to get a tertiary (15 secs or so if I add a couple mil of camber to the blade edges) with my 16K or 30K stones. Three or four seconds with the "ruler trick" on the fine stone to remove the burr on the back and I'm done. I traded in my finer white stones for the coarser wheel because I wasn't having to dip the tool nearly as often and would never go back.

    Greetings from Alaska,

    Jim
    One can never have too many planes and chisels... or so I'm learning!!

  9. #24
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    Ohhhhh- I have an idea for those accessory holes- attach a miter slider to the plane and then route a miter slot in your shooting board. The plane will always stay on track and you can focus on pushing the plane rather than holding it tight to the fence.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Weaver View Post
    Got it, Harold. I'll send you something really obscure and that doesn't cut very fast nor get a tool very sharp

    Or one of the bags of stones I've come across that came out of a machinist shop - millions of little india stones that must've been used without oil until they were loaded, and then thrown away.
    Oh, wow...what a guy!

    And, not to be out done, I will send you some very nice gravel from my driveway.
    I am never wrong.

    Well...I thought I was wrong once...but I was mistaken.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold Burrell View Post
    Oh, wow...what a guy!

    And, not to be out done, I will send you some very nice gravel from my driveway.
    *Natural* stones, eh? <g>
    One can never have too many planes and chisels... or so I'm learning!!

  12. #27
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    Maybe I'm crazy but your shooting board looks ramped the wrong way to be used with the skewed blades in these planes. It seems like the ramp is putting your work closer to perpendicular to the cutting edge, negating the the skew effect slightly.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joey Naeger View Post
    Maybe I'm crazy but your shooting board looks ramped the wrong way to be used with the skewed blades in these planes. It seems like the ramp is putting your work closer to perpendicular to the cutting edge, negating the the skew effect slightly.
    The ramp of a shooting board doesn't skew the cut the same way a skewed blade does. The board holds the wood at a skew to the work allowing the blade to start the cut progressively, but it does not create a shearing cut and thus will not negate the shearing cut of a skewed blade regardless of the slopes direction. A skewed blade is skewed in relation to the motion of the plane so it does create a shearing cut throughout the entire stroke and lowers the effective angle of attack. Took me a while to wrap my head around the difference but skewing the work piece and skewing the blade in relation to the direction of the motion of the plane are not the same thing. Though you make a good point. I suppose that if the skew of the board was as such so that it negated the skew at the entry point it it could have some cancelling effect..as you say make it closer to perpendicular. Hope that makes sense....as I right this I'm realizing that I don't know what I';m talking about...I should just stop posting.

    I'm not quite sure how/if a ramped board would benefit an already skewed blade anyway, but I believe Derek feels it does benefit the skewed bladed plane (not just the straight) and he obviously evaluates these things pretty thoroughly. Derek can probably explain it better.
    Last edited by Chris Griggs; 08-28-2013 at 9:56 AM.
    Woodworking is terrific for keeping in shape, but it's also a deadly serious killing system...

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joey Naeger View Post
    It seems like the ramp is putting your work closer to perpendicular to the cutting edge, negating the the skew effect slightly.
    Presactly!
    "If you have all your fingers, you can convert to Metric"

  15. #30
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    The ramp of a shooting board doesn't skew the cut the same way a skewed blade does. The board holds the wood at a skew to the work allowing the blade to start the cut progressively, but it does not create a shearing cut and thus will not negate the shearing cut of a skewed blade regardless of the slopes direction
    Chris has it.

    I'm not quite sure how/if a ramped board would benefit an already skewed blade anyway, but I believe Derek feels it does benefit the skewed bladed plane (not just the straight) and he obviously evaluates these things pretty thoroughly. Derek can probably explain it better.
    Perhaps not better, but this is what I wrote in an article on the topic: "While there is a much debate whether the ramped board can be said to impart a true slicing cut, there was no mistaking that any plane on the ramped board cut with less effort and less apparent impact than when used on a flat board.The ramped board does appear to cause the blade to hit the edge of the board at an angle, which leads to it enter the board at a progressive angle. By contrast, a flat board will cause a plane with a square blade to strike it across its full width."

    http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ShootingPlanesCompared.html

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

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