Wood River planes

[Max Withers]

Well, I got some woodcraft gift certificates and the main thing I need is a shoulder plane, so I was thinking about trying it, but I just don't know. Seems like I could get a functional stanley 93 or record 311 for around $100 on eBay, but I keep thinking I should just save up for a LN, or maybe even a cosmetically challenged infill from a real dealer. On the other hand, what else am I gonna buy from woodcraft? Maybe some water stones?

Basically, I'm just hijacking this thread to ask your opinion about shoulder planes. Not able to justify more than one for the foreseeable future.

[David Weaver]

Can't give much advice on what to buy from Woodcraft. If you have a while, I'd wait until a need presents itself.

I have two shoulder planes. I never use either of them (well, every once in a great while I will use a large shoulder plane, but not for anything to do with tenon shoulders).

If I was smart, I'd sell them. It is miles more satisfying to use chisels for everything I'd generally do with a shoulder plane. That's going to leave some folks wondering about cleaning up rabbets, etc. A good sound and sharp beech rabbet plane does that just fine.

If you are only going to buy one shoulder plane, I would get the veritas medium if you're going to use it on shoulders. If you're going to use it to clean up rabbets, etc, I would get a large of either brand.

[Lloyd Robins]

I would watch their sales flyer and specials. They do have some good deals. I don't use a shoulder plane either, so I cannot comment on the WoodRiver one.

[Tony Zaffuto]

My opinion goes a bit contrary to David's, concerning shoulder planes - I wouldn't be without one! The first I got was the LV medium, and I like it, but it is not used much at all. I had a need for a shoulder plane a bit bigger and I purchased the LN large, and I like it a lot and it is used frequently (much more than the medium). The large size makes it easier (for me) to handle and ease in the hand means more accuracy!

However, the shoulder plane I use the most is a 5/8" (+/- a hair) Preston. It just feels sooooooo good in the mitt that you just can't help but be accurate with it! Problem is Prestons aren't made any more and to get one, you have to find a old tool dealer. I happen to "accumulate Preston tools and when I got this small beauty, I just had to take her for a ride.

If it were me, I would opt for a LN - they're copies of Records which are copies of Prestons. The upside is that if you don't like it, you'll be able to sell it for nearly what you paid for it.

[Don Dorn]

Oddly enough, I don't have a medium shoulder plane but do have a large LN and a small LV. Now that I have them, I find them very handy for fine tuning with the large being used more. That said, I admit that they are not tools that I use often, but when one needs one, the are indispensable for me. With the LN, I learned that it is meant to be pulled rather than pushed, and have discovered that it works so well, that I use the small the same way.

[Hilton Ralphs]

I think it was Chris Gouchner that wrote a very good article in Fine Woodworking a couple years ago on the many uses of a shoulder plane.

[Chris Hachet]

Can't give much advice on what to buy from Woodcraft. If you have a while, I'd wait until a need presents itself.

I have two shoulder planes. I never use either of them (well, every once in a great while I will use a large shoulder plane, but not for anything to do with tenon shoulders).

If I was smart, I'd sell them. It is miles more satisfying to use chisels for everything I'd generally do with a shoulder plane. That's going to leave some folks wondering about cleaning up rabbets, etc. A good sound and sharp beech rabbet plane does that just fine.

If you are only going to buy one shoulder plane, I would get the veritas medium if you're going to use it on shoulders. If you're going to use it to clean up rabbets, etc, I would get a large of either brand.

Agree with this. I use chisels mostly for this stuff...but I do want a Veritas Rabbit plane.

[Chris Hachet]

I think it was Chris Gouchner that wrote a very good article in Fine Woodworking a couple years ago on the many uses of a shoulder plane.

Phil Lowe also wrote one if I recall correctly. FWW pretty much recycles the same stuff over and over IMHO....

[Chris Hachet]

Oddly enough, I don't have a medium shoulder plane but do have a large LN and a small LV. Now that I have them, I find them very handy for fine tuning with the large being used more. That said, I admit that they are not tools that I use often, but when one needs one, the are indispensable for me. With the LN, I learned that it is meant to be pulled rather than pushed, and have discovered that it works so well, that I use the small the same way.

A lot of planes work well pulled rather than pushed.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Phil Lowe also wrote one if I recall correctly. FWW pretty much recycles the same stuff over and over IMHO....

Chris Gochnour's article was in FWW #187 and before that he reviewed some shoulder planes in FWW #171. Philip Lowe does some awesome stuff though.

[steven c newman]

for a rabbet plane, I have a Stanley made for Wards #78. I can take the items off, and lay the plane on its side as a large shoulder plane, too

The Wood river I have now is the second one, as the first had the wrong chipbreaker on it. Might have been for a V2 instead of the V3 ? Once they replaced the "bad plane" on thier dime, the new one works just fine. Fine enough that i don't need to sand anymore...

[Max Withers]

Well David, why don't you just saw to the line instead of wasting time with chisels? Joking! I am doing my shoulders with chisels, but I don't seem to have as easy a time of it as you do. I guess I should just practice, but the existence of a fancy tool specifically for the problem I'm having is... distracting.

Steven, I tried my 78 on some shoulders, but it did not like the end grain. I should sharpen better and try again.

And Tony, I've had my eye out for a Preston, but they're not easy to come by, unless you like to feed everyone's favorite self-proclaimed "shark" on ebay. Which I do not. Even when honest dealers have them, they are still not cheap.

The interesting thing about the Wood River shoulder is that they copied a Preston directly (and made it considerably uglier), instead of copying LN's version of a Record copy of a Preston. I'm not sure that's interesting enough for me though.

Much as I love Lee Valley, I'm not a fan of the look of the Veritas shoulder. But I don't really want to be that guy, the one who buys a possibly inferior product (or at least one with fewer set screws) because it looks "cool." So if I buy something old I don't have to be that guy, but the old ones are so expensive (relative to, say, bench planes), that it seems stupid not buy a new one that's actually square! The good thing about this ridiculous dilemma is that it's preventing me from spending money instead of vice versa.

[David Weaver]

Well David, why don't you just saw to the line instead of wasting time with chisels? Joking! I am doing my shoulders with chisels, but I don't seem to have as easy a time of it as you do. I guess I should just practice, but the existence of a fancy tool specifically for the problem I'm having is... distracting.

Yeah, I don't know if I'd ever call getting a good fit easy. If you want it tight, the most important thing is a well struck deep marking line all the way around and removing most of whatever is above the marking line so that the chisel doesn't try to push through the marking line. I wanted to like the shoulder plane, but in the end, I found it a little easier to use the chisels. There's no issue if the chisel line is large or small ("which size shoulder plane is best with this tenon" syndrome), and I don't have the tendency to do anything other than cut exactly at the marking line wiht the chisels, leaving a tiny bit of clean up at the corners of the M&T. A slight undercut makes the fit tight and any tiny stray marks from the chisels disappear with glue.

The only tip I can offer that I haven't seen a lot of (i've seen a lot of talk of "paring the shoulders" which to me is a rough job with a wide chisel in hardwoods) is to lay whatever piece has the tenon down if you can - on the bench, and chop to the line. Maybe it's just me, but I have a lot more control with light taps of a mallet, and I can pare with a narrow chisel on the narrow side of the tenon and that's good enough.

There's nothing quick about them, though, so I don't want to create the illusion that I or anyone else is doing precise tenons in some athletic way spinning out a mortise and tenon every five minutes. I just have a better time with the chisels and the good deep mark.

[Chris Griggs]

For tenon shoulders on most furniture sized tenons I have better luck with deep line and chisel as well. I do have the LV medium shoulder plane, it does get used a good bit, and I do quite like it, but it really doesn't get used much on tenon shoulder. I tend to use it for things like trimming rabbets on panels or the backs of cases or fitting tongues and sliding dovetails.

I think its really nice to have one shoulder plane around. Not that I wouldn't like more, but I think just having one of just about any size will take care of most rabbeting tasks. I think the key is to get one that is comfortable and that will be wide enough to cover the majority of rabbets in the scale of your work. Width really isn't a concern with tenon shoulder...its very very rare that one would have a shoulder over 3/8" and pretty much all the shoulder planes on the market are at least 1/2".

I had the little LN infill and though I loved it I found that is was periodically a little too small for things, so I sold it and got the medium LV (would have kept the LN too but needed the $$ for something larger). I would really like a large shoulder plane but honestly I have yet to encounter a situation where the LV med wasn't wide enough to do what I wanted it to do (w/o needing to take overlapping strokes). I really think any of the shoulder planes in the greater than 1/2" sizes will cover the vast majority of what you'd need a shoulder plane to do. I pretty much never have a rabbet that is wider than 3/4" and the vast majority are closer to 1/2".

[Tony Zaffuto]

Well David, why don't you just saw to the line instead of wasting time with chisels? Joking! I am doing my shoulders with chisels, but I don't seem to have as easy a time of it as you do. I guess I should just practice, but the existence of a fancy tool specifically for the problem I'm having is... distracting.

Steven, I tried my 78 on some shoulders, but it did not like the end grain. I should sharpen better and try again.

And Tony, I've had my eye out for a Preston, but they're not easy to come by, unless you like to feed everyone's favorite self-proclaimed "shark" on ebay. Which I do not. Even when honest dealers have them, they are still not cheap.

The interesting thing about the Wood River shoulder is that they copied a Preston directly (and made it considerably uglier), instead of copying LN's version of a Record copy of a Preston. I'm not sure that's interesting enough for me though.

Much as I love Lee Valley, I'm not a fan of the look of the Veritas shoulder. But I don't really want to be that guy, the one who buys a possibly inferior product (or at least one with fewer set screws) because it looks "cool." So if I buy something old I don't have to be that guy, but the old ones are so expensive (relative to, say, bench planes), that it seems stupid not buy a new one that's actually square! The good thing about this ridiculous dilemma is that it's preventing me from spending money instead of vice versa.

I fed "the Ebay shark" at a tool sale in person about 4, 5 or 6 years ago, and most of the sales one could go to, you have the sellers willing to negotiate just a tad. The shark wouldn't budge and I had to have the Preston, so I paid the price!