Opinions: Benchcrafted Criss Cross, or Traditional Glide Leg Vise?

[Maurice Ungaro]

I recently purchased a bench builder's package from an estate sale. It is an older version, so the Criss Cross was not even an option then. Love the concept and simplicity of the Cross mechanism, but want to know if any of you all have had the opportunity to compare and contrast the two. Part of me thinks that I might as well just build with what I have, and the other part leans towards buying the optional hardware and going with the Criss Cross.
No shortage of opinions here, so let me hear from some of you all.

[Chris Griggs]

Can't speak for the Benchcrafted hardware but if money is not an object I would go for the xcross. Anything that gets rid of the stupid pin is good.

Not that you need to move the pin all that often, but it can be PITA. Get a xcross. If I build another leg vise I won't buy the benchcrafted hardware but you can be sure I'd buy either the xcross or the chain thingy (technical term) that Jim Ritter makes....(unless of coarse I'm feeling either cheap or lazy at that point-in-time)

[Prashun Patel]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...-or-crisscross

[Hilton Ralphs]

Leg Glide or the Crisscross - both sound like Hip Hop dance moves.

The Crisscross which is designed for your bench is actually cheaper than the chain mechanism from Jim Ritter.

Bottom line, do you want to spend the additional $99? On the flip side, if you don't and continues with your bench build and then decide to add one in, the cost rises to $139.

Suffering from buyers remorse is better than suffering from just remorse, so just do it.

[Jim Belair]

I figure it wouldn't be too difficult to make a St. Peter's cross (i.e., criss-cross) type mechanism using angle iron and that's what I plan to do when I get around to making a leg vise.

[Steve Voigt]

I think it's amusing how a group of hand tool woodworkers, who would happily spend 10 minutes ripping a plank rather than 10 seconds on the tablesaw, somehow can't deal with the 5 seconds it takes to move the pin.
I have no objections to the pin. The slight inconvenience of moving it is well worth the simplicity, low cost, and ruggedness of the design. If you follow the BC design and put the pin above the stretcher (rather than below as in a traditional leg vise), it shouldn't strain your back, either.
The pin has been proven over 500 years. I'd spend the hundred bucks on something else.

[george wilson]

I can't even reach any low down pin right now. Old guys like me who have back trouble need something better. I used one for years when younger,but don't want a pin now. Right now,I have a modern metal vise on my bench. Not sure what you mean by mounting the pin above the stretcher,steve.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Not sure what you mean by mounting the pin above the stretcher,steve.

I think he means mounting the parallel guide above the end stretcher and not under it. This makes fitting the chain thingie from Jim Ritter a viable option.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Like this (excuse my rudimentary drawing skills)

leg_vise.JPG

[Chris Griggs]

I think it's amusing how a group of hand tool woodworkers, who would happily spend 10 minutes ripping a plank rather than 10 seconds on the tablesaw, somehow can't deal with the 5 seconds it takes to move the pin.

Don't you see Steve. That's why we can't waste time moving the pin. We are already wasting so much time and energy ripping and thicknessing by hand. We need to save time and energy anywhere else we can.

Point well taken. There really is nothing to moving the pin and 90% of the time it stays at one setting. I think its just one of those things that feels annoying in the moment. It doesn't really take any extra time. I just have these moment where I'll clamp a piece without really thinking about the fact that its a little thicker than usual and than realize I need to unclamp it and move the pin to get a good grip. It really doesn't take anytime or effort, it just feels annoying, the problem is more psychological than anything else. Something that gets rid of it would just sorta remove that mild aggravation...is the removal of that aggravation (if it exists) worth $130. I don't know. My next bench (which will be built this winter) won't have a leg vise anyway. I already have one of those so the new will have a QR face vise and a traditional tail vise a la Fortune/Nelson (thanks to Sean H and Chris F posting photos of this bench type recently )

[Don Dorn]

I think it's amusing how a group of hand tool woodworkers, who would happily spend 10 minutes ripping a plank rather than 10 seconds on the tablesaw, somehow can't deal with the 5 seconds it takes to move the pin.
I have no objections to the pin. The slight inconvenience of moving it is well worth the simplicity, low cost, and ruggedness of the design. If you follow the BC design and put the pin above the stretcher (rather than below as in a traditional leg vise), it shouldn't strain your back, either.
The pin has been proven over 500 years. I'd spend the hundred bucks on something else.

Very good point - as was in a book once, "Don't argue with the dead guys". That said, I'm one of the few that went away from the leg vise and returned to the Record style on the front. Worked out very well for me - a lot more versitile and opens to 13" by pushing a single lever.

[Matt ONeill]

I used the glide with the roller setup for about 2 years before I installed the glide. I far prefer the glide, and here's why:

If you *forget* to move the pin (which I often did) when clamping a thicker piece, the racking of the vise would then force the roller wheels out of position (chop wracks, forcing the parallel guide out of parallel). And with the glide wheel, it's easier then you think to apply a lot of force and move those wheels out of position. Then, of course, you need to loosen 4 bolts and get everything lined up again *just so*.

None of these issues with the criss cross. It's just as smooth, no tweaking. I'd argue that installation is easier as well.

Here's my two blog posts about installing it:

http://brokenfingerswoodworking.tumb.../smooth-action

http://brokenfingerswoodworking.tumb...04/criss-cross


- Matt

[Jim Matthews]

I just refitted my leg vise with a gliding pin board.

With the pin board properly fitted, it's really easy to adjust and much simpler to make.
From what I've seen, the simplest solution is the Anchor chain retrofit or McGuire style linear bearing variants.

Once they're installed, you need no longer stoop to conquer.
The downside is the time and expense to install these.

For me, cheap and cheerful pinboards are the way to go. I need my exercise, anyway. I bought a bunch or punches with red paint to use as pins.
They're easy to find, even with my feeble vision. Did I mention they were cheap?

There is an unmentioned alternative, using spacer blocks at the bottom, as shown in Paul Miller's fiendishly clever wedge-powered vises.
Rather than use them to adjust the position of the vise top section, I propose to use them at the bottom.

It would be simple to build a series of spacers in common sizes of boards to be clamped.
Those could be slipped in at the bottom, notched to ride on top of the pin board.

Stay tuned to these pages for examples...

[Tony Wilkins]

Jim, that wedge powered vise looks a little kludgey to me. But I do see what you are saying about the spacers; it has a definite possibility to be a simple and elegant solution. I'm looking at this too as I plan the bench I want to build after we move. The crisscross on bench crafted hardware still leading the way in my mind. I'll be playing with my moxon to see how I like the 'das boat' wheels - dive, dive. (Don't even have'em on and I'm already playing with them.)

[Jim Matthews]

The idea of the wedge powered vise is that the mechanism is simple to install and fault tolerant of alignment.
I'm going to build a pair of the inset vises shown, I think they're elegant.

*****
The idea is to have a series of spacers to drop in place follows from the commonly used thicknesses I work with.

If I'm working on the edge of a board, it will typically be 3/4" thick. Drop a 5/8" spacer in the bottom and I don't need a pin.
The pin board is already drilled, for holding wider boards where I have plenty of room to slip one in.

I'm thinking of a stack like those shown in this YouTube video, long enough to span the bottom of the leg vise chop.
With them notched so that they'll index, alignment would be easy.

I'm not convinced that would be any simpler to use than a bunch of blocks cut to fixed thicknesses.