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Thread: Advice on finishing one of my first projects, a plant shelf for the wife

  1. #1

    Advice on finishing one of my first projects, a plant shelf for the wife

    Hi all,

    I'm relatively new to both wood working and sawmillcreek.org. My wife has graciously given me full use of the two car garage for my new hobby and I'm enjoying it! I'm working on one of my my first 'real' projects for her -- a plant shelf that wraps around the side of the outside entrance way and support column for her orchids.

    The shelf is three layers -- two full size and one small one at the top the fits between the column and the house. I have the frame complete and it's pictured below (note it's a very rough dry fit, I haven't sanded or perfected the mortise & tenon joints yet.) Also pictured is a demonstration of how I envision the actual shelf -- approx 3/8" thick planks spaced approx 1/4" apart. My wife has expressed interest in using a different type of wood for the planks to add some contrast. I don't know if it will look good though, or what woods I should use.

    I will tell you that I used aromatic cedar for the frame (her choice), which was my first big mistake as I later learned it's not a good wood to use outdoors. I plan on using a marine grade spar finish (any recommendations?) and hoping for the best without any expectations. Luckily it will be mostly under cover but will still occasionally get wet for short periods at a time. Thankfully, the amount of knowledge and experience I have gained with this first project well surpasses the cost of the lumber but I still would like it to last if possible!

    Do you think I should use a white oak or other wood for the planks? The wood would need to not be soft or brittle since the planks are only 3/8" thick.

    This project was a first for me in many ways and I've learned a lot so far. It's the first time I worked with rough lumber from purchasing it to dressing it with a jointer, planer & TS. I tried my hand at mortise and tenons and they came out well. It's also the first time I've done re-sawing using my band saw.




  2. #2
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    Just don't buy your spar varnish from a home center like Lowes or Home Depot. Those products are typically Polyurethane based and will not hold up to the weather, no matter what the can says. The finish will turn cloudy and begin to crack and peel off within a year or so. I know this from unfortunate personal experience. Obtain your varnish from a Marina or order it from a marine supply place.

    I am not sure I agree with the assessment from someone that aromatic cedar (Eastern Red Cedar?) was a bad choice for lumber. I have made projects from that material, if it is what I think it is, that held up well out in the weather with no finish at all. The wood turns a silver grey but does not rot very quickly.

    You might want to post your questions about finishing on the "Finishing" forum. There are some real experts who hang out there.

  3. #3
    Thanks Art. I will be sure to order from a local marine supply place or online.

    Any thoughts on using a different wood for the shelf planks? I'm not sure it will look good. I thought maybe a white oak or cypress to appeal to the lighter colors in the cedar. Also, there won't be a lot of weight on the shelf so my plan is to cut a 5/8" - 3/4" rabbet along the rails and simply glue the ends of the planks into the rail rabbets. There won't be much weight on the slats, but would having two separate species of wood maybe cause them to expand/contract at different rates enough to cause damage or pull apart?

  4. #4
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    Even if you use a waterproof glue, I think the joints may fail over time due to expansion and contraction. Also, the glued surface area will be quite small. I built a pair of Adirondack chairs using old growth cypress and stainless steel screws. As I mentioned previously, the Home Depot varnish quickly failed, but the chairs are several years old now and they are as solid as ever. The screws are still shiny. You might also use solid brass screws if you like their appearance better. Just don't use plain wood screws as they will rust and fail.

  5. #5
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    Brandon, I don't know how you intend to design your planks, but I would consider slats instead for the water to drain readily. Here's an outdoor plant stand made out of red cedar and yellow pine :plant stand (reduction).JPG

    It was not put together with stainless screws but with deck screws. It's held together firmly for 8 years.

    I don't know if any finish would maintain that great cedar color in an outdoor setting over time, however. I believe whatever finish you put on it, it will fade, the more in the weather and the more in the sun the faster. I would likely apply no finish at all, or oil if you feel you must put something on, and let the wood age. It may get lighter and it may get grayer. It is meant to be outdoors, after all. Good luck and have fun.
    Last edited by Yonak Hawkins; 09-12-2013 at 8:25 PM.

  6. #6
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    I agree with the deck screws too if they meet your aesthetic requirements. I'm also in agreement that no finish will last unless you renew it every few years. I gave up on my Cypress Adirondack chairs and let them weather naturally.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Art Mann View Post
    Even if you use a waterproof glue, I think the joints may fail over time due to expansion and contraction. Also, the glued surface area will be quite small. I built a pair of Adirondack chairs using old growth cypress and stainless steel screws. As I mentioned previously, the Home Depot varnish quickly failed, but the chairs are several years old now and they are as solid as ever. The screws are still shiny. You might also use solid brass screws if you like their appearance better. Just don't use plain wood screws as they will rust and fail.
    Fair point. Do you think rabbeting the rails to accept the planks like I had planned and then gluing and counter sinking two screws per end will be sufficient?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yonak Hawkins View Post
    Brandon, I don't know how you intend to design your planks, but I would consider slats instead for the water to drain readily. Here's an outdoor plant stand made out of red cedar and yellow pine :plant stand (reduction).JPG

    It was not put together with stainless screws but with deck screws. It's held together firmly for 8 years.

    I don't know if any finish would maintain that great cedar color in an outdoor setting over time, however. I believe whatever finish you put on it, it will fade, the more in the weather and the more in the sun the faster. I would likely apply no finish at all, or oil if you feel you must put something on, and let the wood age. It may get lighter and it may get grayer. It is meant to be outdoors, after all. Good luck and have fun.
    Looks great, Yonak. I like the different woods, I think that answered my question on using different woods.

    Thanks for the tips on the finishing. I hear you but I think I might go ahead and finish my shelf and then perhaps let it naturally age as it wears off. It would be the first time I finished anything so I figure it would be good practice before I did any work on inside pieces, even if I were to let it go after a couple years.

  8. #8
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    I am a bit confused by the comment that cedar was a bad choice for outdoor use. What was the reason given that it was a bad choice? I have a cedar fence made with the same type of red cedar (posts and all) that I put up 16 years ago. It has aged to a very pleasant gray and is just as sturdy as the day I built it. At first I thought I wanted it to keep the red color, I used BLO which helped some but soon realized that it was a battle I was not going to win, so I just let it weather. I think I like the look just as much and it requires no maintenance at all.

    Also, I made a sign that said "No boys Allowed" for my grand daughter's tree house a few years ago from red cedar. This time I painted it with several coats of spar varnish. The varnish gave it a sort of an unnatural look that I disliked more than the natural gray. It only took a couple of years before the varnish started peeling. I did not refinish because, she had later decided to rethink the "No Boys" rule. (Even though dad really liked it)
    Last edited by Larry Browning; 09-13-2013 at 9:58 AM.
    Larry J Browning
    There are 10 kinds of people in this world; Those who understand binary and those who don't.

  9. #9
    When I purchased the wood it was labeled at the yard "Aromatic Cedar." Based on this article on Wikipedia this is the common name for Juniperus virginiana -- or also commonly referred to as "eastern red cedar."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juniperus_virginiana

    Researching types of cedar for outdoor use, primarily Western Red Cedar and Northern White Cedar are recommended on articles dedicated to listing the woods. On the other hand, I just found some discussion topics similar to this one where ERC is stated as acceptable for outdoors (and yet more still where they state it's not.)

    Either way, I'm going with the option that it's a good wood outdoors because I'm certainly not re-doing the frame now

    Based on this topic I'm going with white oak for the slats to add some contrast, just going to use an oil like General Finishes Outdoor Oil to finish the entire stand, and use countersunk screws in addition to glue for the slats. I also read where using epoxy on the leg bottoms will stop it from wicking up water through the end grain, so I might include that too.

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