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Thread: Inlay cutting question

  1. #1
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    Inlay cutting question

    I want to start using mother of pearl and abalone shell for inlay on my projects. Does this have to be cut by hand with a jewlers' saw? I was thinking I could use my scrollsaw on slow speed with a jewlers' blade and zero clearance. Is the 000 blades the best to cut this material? Does anyone cut with a scrollsaw?

    To cut the cavities, I have a Dremel and was going to purchase the base kit from Stewart MacDonald along with other necessary supplies.
    Any help or direction with techniques or tools is greatly appreciated.

    Thanks...

    ...Take Care and Enjoy Life

  2. #2
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    I prefer to cut with a jeweler's saw and a wooden "bird mouth" piece of wood,situated horizontally on the workbench. I sit on a low stool so the cutting is about at chin level. There are others who use a scroll saw,if you can find one that doesn't have that "walking beam action. I had a variable speed Hegner I got barely used. They aren't cheap,but with the walking beam action the blade goes in and out while it goes up and down,sanding the side of whatever you're sawing. Very annoying. Recently I got an old Delta scroll saw that has the spring loaded top cylinder. It goes straight up and down. And,the blades are MUCH,MUCH easier to change than that blasted Hegner.

    Go to the FAQ section at the top of this section and look at the oud maker's techniques. He makes complex roses for ouds with a scroll saw.

    Sometimes,when I am going to inlay a piece of pearl in a fingerboard,I pout a TEENY,repeat,TEENY drop of super glue in the center of where the inlay will go. Then,I carefully lay down the piece of pearl already cut out. Let the glue dry. Then,I can trace it on the wood with a sharp pointed awl. Then,I can pop the pearl loose,rub some white chalk in the scribed outline,and rout out as much wood as I can. I prefer to use my 1963 Craftsman drill press with the high speed attachment that will do 10,000 RPM. I use a Stewart MacDonald 1/32" DOWN CUTTING carbide end mill for the routing. I can see the work better than with any router. Also,I can set a little drag on the quill,and preset the cutting depth,lower the bit into the wood(while running!) tighten the quill,and rout away.

    The high/low speed attachment was just a 3rd. pulley set into the column of the drill press. You can get real low speeds or very high ones with it. Some modern drill presses have the 3rd pulley,though I don't know if they can get the very high speeds. With a 1/32" cutter,it WILL break if it isn't going VERY fast. 10,000 RPM is fast enough. 20,000 would be better.

    Years ago,I made a stacked up plywood attachment to clamp around the drill press column,and extended out to clamp around a router. You could do the same,but would not have the ease of lowering the quill accurately. You might could just crank the table up a LITTLE with care.

    P.S.: If you use too much super glue and can't get the pearl loose without breaking the pearl,just take a soldering iron and apply heat to the pearl over the glue. Be careful to not turn the pearl brown,and next time be more careful about the glue.
    Last edited by george wilson; 09-14-2013 at 3:22 PM.

  3. #3
    The reciprocating motion of most scroll saws is really not ideal, as George points out. I'll also mention that the scroll saws can be quite grabby and break things....or fling things around. When you saw by hand, that could happen too, but you feel is. The scroll saw just flings....and you have to do it on a zero clearance insert and you have to have your fingers very close to the blade. It's just not a great tool for inlay work.

    Now THIS one, on the other hand, has everything going for it, and it's priced accordingly:
    http://knewconcepts.com/power.php

    and if that's too much, for a little less:
    http://knewconcepts.com/precision.php

    but most of us just use a cheap jewelers frame and a bench pin (i.e. the "bird mouth" that George is referring to. You can even waste money and buy one, or you can screw a piece of plywood to a 2X4 and cut a little V in it like me )

    The StewMac dremel tool thingy is very nice and I use it. Honestly, best would be one of those ultra high speed turbine hand pieces that people use for piercing and carving, but no one makes a holder for one. I'm toying with the idea of producing one from plexi-glass, actually, because that would probably be perfect for inlay pockets....no grabbing...no resistance. Either way, a foot pedal on-off switch is pretty essential, in my opinion, unless you have much steadier hands than I do.
    Last edited by John Coloccia; 09-26-2013 at 7:38 PM.

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the tips guys.

    Getting ready to order some stuff from Stewmac. Guess I will get a hand saw. I found this in my search for how to cut it. I thought it was a pretty cool homemade tool.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry9ymXcyCEs

    Is it better to get mother of pearl that .040 or .050 thick? Any advantages for a particular thickness?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Fries View Post
    Thanks for the tips guys.

    Getting ready to order some stuff from Stewmac. Guess I will get a hand saw. I found this in my search for how to cut it. I thought it was a pretty cool homemade tool.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry9ymXcyCEs

    Is it better to get mother of pearl that .040 or .050 thick? Any advantages for a particular thickness?
    Thicker is better on fingerboards because you will inlay when it's flat and then radius later. Thinner inlays can get VERY thin at the edges of the board. When it's flat, like a rosette, it doesn't matter. For Abalone, you want to make the pocket as perfectly sized depth wise as you can, even to the point of slightly sanding the wood down to meet the abalone. The fantastic figure on the abalone is VERY thin and if you sand it down to the wood you will loose the magic.

    FWIW, sometimes I inlay AFTER radiusing the fingerboard, though I always cut/drill the pockets beforehand. This is because the MOP is hard and if you're not careful it can be difficult to radius it properly because you're always teetering on the inlay. Then I level the inlays with a coarse FILE. The file will take down the MOP but mostly skip over the wood if you have a light touch. Either way, I calculate my inlay depth to take radiusing into account because you really don't have a lot of wiggle room. The key is knowing how to calculate a sagitta of an arc.

    http://liutaiomottola.com/formulae/sag.htm

    You can also calculate it using the Versine function. It's mathematically equivalent though normally described in a slightly different form. Whichever works best for you. Essentially, the Versine function tells you what's leftover from the end of the Cosine to the edge of the arc along the radius when you inscribe a right triangle. Look it up and once you see the diagrams you'll understand how it's relevant to fingerboard. That's very handy for a LOT of things beyond fingerboards. Between the Versine (sagitta) and "long compass" constructions, you can solve all sorts of woodworking problems that drive people a little nutty otherwise.
    Last edited by John Coloccia; 09-27-2013 at 7:58 PM.

  6. #6
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    Is the 3/0 blade the best for mother of pearl?

    Thanks

  7. #7
    Best? I don't know. That's what I use. I buy them by the gross from jewelry suppliers, and you should too

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Coloccia View Post

    Now THIS one, on the other hand, has everything going for it, and it's priced accordingly:
    http://knewconcepts.com/power.php

    and if that's too much, for a little less:
    http://knewconcepts.com/precision.php

    but most of us just use a cheap jewelers frame and a bench pin (i.e. the "bird mouth" that George is referring to. You can even waste money and buy one, or you can screw a piece of plywood to a 2X4 and cut a little V in it like me ).
    John, I saw that too. If you had a lot to do and a lot of money to spare, it would be great. For now, I'll stick with the jeweler's saw and bench pin.
    Shawn

    "no trees were harmed in the creation of this message, however some electrons were temporarily inconvenienced."

    "I resent having to use my brain to do your thinking"

  9. #9
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    An Eclipse scrollsaw is one that cuts up and down without any in-and-out action to the blade. Each machine is or was hand built. I've cut on one and really loved the machine, just never had the money to buy one.

    http://www.eclipsesaw.com/id1.html

    Currently priced at $1,750.00 each.
    Thanks & Happy Wood Chips,
    Dennis -
    Get the Benefits of Being an SMC Contributor..!
    ....DEBT is nothing more than yesterday's spending taken from tomorrow's income.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Peacock View Post
    An Eclipse scrollsaw is one that cuts up and down without any in-and-out action to the blade. Each machine is or was hand built. I've cut on one and really loved the machine, just never had the money to buy one.

    http://www.eclipsesaw.com/id1.html

    Currently priced at $1,750.00 each.
    The only eclipse saw I have used had considerable front to back motion but I understand that it can be adjust out. I have two Hegner saws and neither have any front to back motion at all. I also have a 1988 Jet scroll saw and it has no front to back movement either.
    No PHD, but I have a DD 214

  11. #11
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    I have gotten,but not yet used,an old,but in minty condition Delta scroll saw. The old type that has a straight up and down motion. What I ought to do is buy a little 1/2 HP motor with variable speed box for about $119.00 from Penn State catalog.

    As I have mentioned,at least on other fora,I have a 1/2 HP variable ( We call them VERBAL-Tha's Verbal speed- speed as a joke at the machine dealer I frequent) speed motor on my die filing machine. The die filers are ALL made to run too fast,which is terribly hard on the files. Pinches your fingers too,when the file goes up,dragging your piece of metal with it,then slams it back down,catching your finger tips under it before you can react! Not fatal,but annoying.

    What would be ideal would be to get one of the Penn State motors,and rig up a foot pedal to operate the variable speed function.

    These little Penn State motors are really made to replace the motors up under the bed and headstock of a mini wood lathe. Could easily be modified in the motor mount to use on the jigsaw.

    For about 55 years I have had a lower chuck for one of those jigsaws that has a teeny opening in it for jewelers saw blades(To help keep them vertical) IF I can find it.(One of those things you always notice in a drawer till you need it,and then can't find it.)

    I just used a wooden fret saw made from yew wood when I was younger. It had a VERY deep throat that would encompass the whole guitar body. A bit heavy on the wrist,and I have too much arthritis now to sit in the position I used to,and use that kind of saw. I sold it anyway to a collector,but have made 2 more frames,but not the handle and chuck yet. I used that saw to make a few of those marquetry saws,one of which I have posted pictures of here.

    Below are pictures: !. The marquetry guitar sawn with the deep throat yew wood saw..2.An arch top guitar's fancy overlay made the same way.3. The left over pieces from the peghead overlay,(missing pieces as usual for stuff I leave laying around); the wanted pieces were slip fitted to make the white on black overlay.I later modified the design to include the abalone eagle. Still debating if I should have done that! Might have been "Too much". As you can see,the lacquer has crazed a bit. I ought to take the pegs off and sand and polish the lacquer back to flat again. But,in real,unmagnified life,it isn't that bad. Maybe it adds "patina". These pieces of veneer were sawn lightly glued together in 2 layers,then sawn through both layers. Any mistakes made in sawing would be transferred to the pieces you want,so be careful! 4 and 5; the original drawings I made on tracing paper to saw out the back of the marquetry guitar. They were not made in 2 pieces,but I could not get the whole sheet into the picture,close up enough that you could see he design readily.. The back,being heavily arched,was made of 4 "staves" coopered together to fit seamlessly together. 6. The bedraggled and somewhat broken left over from sawing one of the staves out. Missing pieces,too.

    I'll give you a little tip on what some builders do to simplify installing fingerboard inlays: They glue the pearl block onto the fingerboard lightly,and saw through THE WHOLE FINGERBOARD when sawing out the pearl. Then,they slip fit the pearl into the cut that goes clear through the fingerboard,glue it in place,and plane the back side of the fingerboard flush again. I never do this as I think it is a somewhat UNDERHANDED way to do inlay. It also might weaken the strength of the fingerboard against bending with the neck under string tension. But,a truss rod would take care of that anyway. I just thing this method smacks of a cheap trick and poor workmanship. I don't know what happens when down the road,a repairman tries to take the fingerboard off by heating or steaming. It AIN'T going to make your good mark in history! But,if you want to try it,there it is. Or,take it as a warning if you ever order a fancy bespoke guitar from a luthier. Though,unless you visit the shop while the finished fingerboard is not yet glued to the neck,it'd be hard to spot it anyway.
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    Last edited by george wilson; 02-01-2016 at 9:38 AM.

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