Deck railing question...

[Tim Morton]

I know we have some deck builders on the forum, so hopefully you guys can help me avoid a costly mistake. I am blown away by the cost of doing this deck, but I guess everything costs more than you wish it would. I have built the framing for a smallish deck on the side of my colonial. it is the main used entry for most people, so we got sick of using the construction steps that were hanging there for 4 years. it is about 24" off the ground and is about 8' x16' ish, and I am at the point where I am searching for what to do for railings. LOML is looking at using these vinyl or composite railings from the borgs. I figure the cost on this will be around $500-$600 so before i go and buy these lego's, is this a waste of money and will it look like crap? I am not impressed so far with my options...so if anyone has any experience or just an opinion i would love to hear it. BTW...I have vinyl siding on the house or elese I wouldn't even be considering this option. I would post a picture if I could find my camera

[Jeff Sudmeier]

Tim,

I have never built an all composite railing but I have built one with aluminum spindles and using trex flooring as the top. The rest of the railing was built with cedar 4x4s and 2x4s.

Personally, I don't like the looks of the composite railings, but if you do, they could be a good option for you. The main concern with any railing is how it mounts to the deck. In order to be a strong railing, it really needs to be securely bolted to the joists or facia boards.

Many deck builders around here use only spindles (pine treated 2x2s) and a deck board on edge. This makes for a very weak railing, but quick to put up. We mount 4x4s to the joists and use them to tie into our railing, makes for a VERY strong railing.

[Richard Wolf]

Tim, I have built a number of outside rails with the PVC or vinyl. They really do hold up well outdoors. I think you should go to a fence supplier as they seem to have more selections and styles of rails. The big difference is the core material, galvinized steel, alum. or cedar. All work well. The great thing about them is no mataince.

Richard

[Steve Ash]

Tim,
I have built decks on the houses that I build for about 16 years now...I have used all wood and the composite type. I just finished re building a deck that used a composite product called Nexwood. When I originally built it (5 years ago) not much was known about installation.... and failed because the fastening system wasn't perfected yet. They use a system called Shadoe track now to fasten the composite boards from underneath which makes it very attractive. The railing system is rather unique in it's installation, there are blocks that you attatch to the 4x4 treated post which has a Nexwood sleeve around it. The post can not be any farther apart than 6' and a 2x2 Nexwood spindle every 2 feet needs to extend to the deck for support to prevent the railing from sagging. Here in Michigan the spindles can not be any farther apart than what a 4" sphere can not pass through. Nexwood is based in Canada and I am told is going through bankruptcy.... not that I am recommending Nexwood but just trying to let you know to make sure the correct installation according to the manufacturer. (and if my camera worked I'd post pics on the results of this installation)
Don't know if you can use any of this information...but good luck!

[JayStPeter]

I am going to use the plastic railings on my deck. I bought some from a local building supply place that are similar to the ones at the borg. But, they use a sleeve over a 4x4 for the posts.
Don't worry Jeff, the 4x4s are bolted on nice and strong

Jay

[Hal Flynt]

I don't know whether you get the Wood Online newsletter or not, but the here's the link to the free plan, which this month is deck railing:


http://www.woodmagazine.com/wood/sto...ta/members.xml

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Tim...go to my site for a few pics of copper tube railings. Most cost effective and best looking option for inexpensive railings that last a long time and are easy to assemble. You can email me for instructions if you like. We do several of these a year. The last one had horizontal copper tubing and it turned out very nicely.

Hanna Woodworks' photo links

[Tim Morton]

OK, I am not going to use the plastic railings...I think they look awful, and they cost an insane amount of money. I am going to contiue to use cedar, which is what the flooring is. I am going to use regular 2x6 dedar to make the top of the rail become a shelf for the wifes plants and I am using the 2x2x36" cedar spindals as the ballister's, that is what the majority of people do up here in vermont, wo I think it will be easy if I could just find a link to some instructions so i get the right "look".

Kelly I LOVE the work you have done, and I am hoping to find a picture on your page of something like this in order to use as a "go by" Your work is GREAT!!! I'm not sure the copper would work here in vermont, we are a simple folk and like things a little on the plain side. We have a neighbor who movedinto this area from Texas and built some railings on his front porch out of some kind of 2' round pipe and ran them horizontal, whihc may work great in texas, but in Vermont it looks awful, and everyone comments on it. So I don't want to have my house renamed the "copper railing house" personally I think it looks really nice, but the LOML voted no...so thats a 1-1 vote and you know my vote doesn't count, so i lose 1-0

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Thanks Tim...I share your view of the composites. They have no character and cost way too much. Also the funny thing is that none of them are guaranteed for longer than 10 years (unless something has changed in the last 5 years). I think that's funny since they're touted as lasting forever.

I can draw you some examples of our railing designs if you can't find what you want in the pics. There are a few ways of doing them, but my favorite (read easiest and longest lasting) is this one...

http://www.hannawoodworks.com/Decks19.html

If you need any tips on the construction, let me know, I'd be happy to help out.

[Tim Morton]

Thanks Tim...I share your view of the composites. They have no character and cost way too much. Also the funny thing is that none of them are guaranteed for longer than 10 years (unless something has changed in the last 5 years). I think that's funny since they're touted as lasting forever.

I can draw you some examples of our railing designs if you can't find what you want in the pics. There are a few ways of doing them, but my favorite (read easiest and longest lasting) is this one...

http://www.hannawoodworks.com/Decks19.html

If you need any tips on the construction, let me know, I'd be happy to help out.

Thats the exact page I just bookmarked before coming back here kelly. Deck 19 seems to be similar to what I want to do, I think i will leave it natural wood, and I did my 4x4's on the inside of the rim joist so I won't do the outside edge treatment....but that overall look seems to be traditional vermont railings. Thanks. I will let you know if I run into problems.

[Tim Morton]

Is that done with 2x6 for the top railing and 2x4 for the other two nailers?

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Thats the exact page I just bookmarked before coming back here kelly. Deck 19 seems to be similar to what I want to do, I think i will leave it natural wood, and I did my 4x4's on the inside of the rim joist so I won't do the outside edge treatment....but that overall look seems to be traditional vermont railings. Thanks. I will let you know if I run into problems.

You're welcome Tim. For the record I told her not to paint it, but hey...it's not my house!

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Yessir....sure is...all assembled with non-pre-drilled pocket screws. We attach the railing cap via 3" deck screws stright up through the top 2x4 (we countersink them) and into the 2x6.

[Tim Morton]

Excellent, I will head to the lumber store later this morning with my list. When you do a railing...how do you decide how high it should end up? Right now my 4x4's are 42 1/2 above the decking, which seems too high for this small deck. I would like to cut them down only once..I'm thinking 39ish would be better...whats the rule here?

[Tim Morton]

Yessir....sure is...all assembled with non-pre-drilled pocket screws. We attach the railing cap via 3" deck screws stright up through the top 2x4 (we countersink them) and into the 2x6.

thanks for that tip...I wasn't sure how do do that part.Is there a rule of thumb for where things get centered? I'm guessing the whole assembly (2x4 and ballisters) is centered under the 2x6? Or do i want to offset it in either direction?