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Thread: Bubbles in Waterlox Original

  1. #16
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    If it is rolling up when sanded its just marginally cured and using m inera l spirits as lubrication could cause problems.

    You still haven't specified which Waterlox you are using. If it is the sealer/finish answers would be different compared to working with satin or gloss.

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Schoene View Post
    If it is rolling up when sanded its just marginally cured and using m inera l spirits as lubrication could cause problems.

    You still haven't specified which Waterlox you are using. If it is the sealer/finish answers would be different compared to working with satin or gloss.
    Yes I agree with Steve, I have found properly cured Waterlox OSF sands very well without Corning even sanded dry. I have successfully used 1200 grit 3m imperial dry to remove nibs prior to the last coat without any issue..

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Schoene View Post
    If it is rolling up when sanded its just marginally cured and using m inera l spirits as lubrication could cause problems.

    You still haven't specified which Waterlox you are using. If it is the sealer/finish answers would be different compared to working with satin or gloss.
    Steve - I responded on 11/23 that I was using the original sealer / finish. Not the gloss material

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert LaPlaca View Post
    Yes I agree with Steve, I have found properly cured Waterlox OSF sands very well without Corning even sanded dry. I have successfully used 1200 grit 3m imperial dry to remove nibs prior to the last coat without any issue..
    Then the issue is its just not warm enough in the shop for this to dry properly. I will tent it and heat the tent

  5. #20
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    Opps. My bad. That leads me to reiterate that it must be bad in some way. Waterlox has a quite short shelf life if there is any air to kick off a cure. Fresh sealer/finished shouldnt be viscous enough to hold bubbles. Have you tried wiping it on. Blue paper shop towels work well. This allows very thin coats by applying it about as heavily waitresses wipe down tables between customers.

  6. #21
    Are you using the original formula osf or the voc compliant formulation? Is their any gel in your can? How fresh is it?
    Last edited by Prashun Patel; 11-26-2013 at 7:46 PM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prashun Patel View Post
    Are you using the original formula osf or the voc compliant formulation? Is their any gel in your can? How fresh is it?
    This is a brand new can. No, there is no gel in the can. I don't know - it says Original on the label. Also Premium Wood Finish, Since 1910, Original Formula, blah, blah, blah. Hand made from tung oil. Top ingredient is Mineral Spirits. It says to apply at rate of 125 sq ft per quart - thats a lot - it would be like a shallow lake to put it on that heavy, which I did not do. I did approx 1/4 that amount and it was still a lot.

    So, can I wet sand it with mineral spirits and 320 grit or should I stick with dry sanding? Maybe a scotchbrite pad and mineral spirits? Maybe its too far along in the cure process for the mineral spirits to do anything??

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Schoene View Post
    Opps. My bad. That leads me to reiterate that it must be bad in some way. Waterlox has a quite short shelf life if there is any air to kick off a cure. Fresh sealer/finished shouldnt be viscous enough to hold bubbles. Have you tried wiping it on. Blue paper shop towels work well. This allows very thin coats by applying it about as heavily waitresses wipe down tables between customers.
    I plan to proceed with a wipe on application as soon as I get the surface sanded back to a state where I am satisfied the surface is as smooth as I can get with 320 grit. I haven't gotten there just yet, hence my questions about sanding. I really think the issue was the directions on the label are very misleading in terms of application volume per unit area and consequently I needed to let it dry way longer than the mfr recommendation of 24 hours before recoating.

    OPINION -- I can see this finish material has a lot of fans on this site. I don't happen to be one of them at this time based on this experience. Maybe I will be a convert when I'm done. I think the label directions should be clarified though because they are very misleading. I bet all the experienced folks here don't bother reading the label at all. You have all learned the nuances of this stuff and I haven't yet.

  9. #24
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    For all that pain you are going through trying to sand it off, why not just strip it? You would have been done in 45 minutes and ready to start fresh. It's not to late to do just that.

    John

  10. #25
    there are two versions of the Original Sealer Finish. the VOC compliant version costs about $35/qt. The "original" original is $29/qt. The voc version has fewer fans than the original.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prashun Patel View Post
    there are two versions of the Original Sealer Finish. the VOC compliant version costs about $35/qt. The "original" original is $29/qt. The voc version has fewer fans than the original.
    True dat, Prashun. Like the OSF, hate the low VOC version.

    I've never found that Waterlox OSF needed more than 24 hours between coats. I do live in the South, though, so it's always hot down here for it to dry quickly.
    - After I ask a stranger if I can pet their dog and they say yes, I like to respond, "I'll keep that in mind" and walk off
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  12. #27
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    Here is the exact stuff I bought from Rockler
    Waterlox.JPG

  13. #28
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    Pat, I may be repeating or contradicting other opinions but here is my 2¢ having used this very finish often on jobs large and small - vertical and horizontal.

    An edited quote from a recent thread I posted -

    I brush it on liberally and allow 24 hours to dry between coats and 48 hours if I choose to lightly sand between coats. Others here on the Creek are very happy applying Waterlox as thin wipe on coats.

    I know that Waterlox says no need to sand between coats but I just do. I vacuum and tack cloth and recoat each time. Each coat gets more full and smooth. The last coat I find is best applied with a wide foam brush - across grain and then feathered out with the grain in long (full length strokes if possible) with the grain. Others might dispute this technique but it works well for me.



    In your case Pat, I think you might be having issues with wiping the surface with MS before applying the Waterlox AND that you are sanding between coats too soon. If you are in a very well heated room 68° + with lots of air movement that could be part of the problem too. Just not enough time to flow out. You can turn the heat up after 4 or 5 hours but not while you are applying the finish. As you read above, I am a brush on Waterlox guy. I use the same cross grain brush on / long grain feathering off - with a very good bristle brush or with a foam brush. Some will say that you can't compare a good bristle brush to a foam brush but in the case of varnish products I have learned to make a foam brush do the job nicely. I prefer the bristle brush for the first coats because it can push more material as I like to put it on liberally. The foam brush on the last coat works well because I get less drag as the finish has developed and the surface has become smooth.

    Sanding between coats in the first few times is with 180 grit to 220 - after more than 24 hours. If it is not powdery it is not ready for sanding. I make certain that I remove all the dust off the surface and off myself before starting the next coat. Then I walk away like a ninja - no rustling of the rice paper under my feet. As i get to the final coats I use 320 or a bit finer but have never used wet/dry. I guess I'm always looking to achieve a working finish and not a grand piano finish. Never had any complaints and I'm more fussy than any of my clients. Light sanding with the grain by hand especially for the last 2 of 5 or 6 coats. I use Abranet Mesh with my Festool 150 ETS/3 for horizontal surfaces for the light sanding of the earlier coats.

    All of this becomes more problematic with vertical surfaces - if you are Waterloxing a cabinet for example. I then become a wipe on guy. With the same prep work between coats but lots more coats and less drying time.

    Having said all that - I have made some messes as I learned the product that have required sanding down to nearly bare wood. Overheating the work space and dust seemed to be the major contributors to bad results. I think I've got it down now. Hope you can win too. Good luck.
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  14. #29
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    Thanks for all the feedback folks. I have now completed 2 coats of wipe on Waterlox after several hours spent sanding the bubbles out using 320 grit. I like how the finish is starting to shape up. What I'm doing now is wiping on, letting it cure for 3 days, then very lightly sanding any nubs / imperfections with the 320 grit (dry), then cleaning the dust carefully and as thoroughly as possible, followed by wiping on another coat using the waitress technique. I am also working on my ninja routine as best I can after wiping the finish on so as not to stir up dust. I think another 3 or 4 coats and i will have a finish that I was hoping for.

    Once I get the top where I want it I will spend some time on the aprons and the legs. Both of these already look pretty good, just some nubs to knockdown.

    I hope to post pictures once I get it completed and installed - probably 2 weeks away.

  15. #30
    Congrats. Can't wait to see it. If it's working for you, then don't alter it. I will, however, suggest that sanding every coat of a wipe-on might be overkill or counterproductive for some. Also, I often finish under dusty conditions, and it just doesn't make a difference with a good wiping varnish (be it poly or waterlox or spar). I still think like some others that there may be an issue with your finish if it's taking that long to be sandable.

    I would hate to see you get to a film that is looks great initially, but doesn't cure hard.

    In the future, if you ever buy waterlox osf again, take great pains to insure that it's the ORIGINAL original formula, not the VOC Compliant one.

    The original is TB5284 and is usually in an orange/cream quart container.
    The voC version is TB6038 and is usually in a red/white or red/yellow container.

    I have found that some proprietors (including the tech rep I spoke with at Woodcraft) aren't aware of the diff. So what you see on the website is not necessarily what is actually shipped.

    FWIW, I've switched to ArmRSeal. It's lighter and it's a poly, but I'm a fan. And unlike P&L38, Behlen's TT, and Waterlox, there's no question about what you're getting
    Last edited by Prashun Patel; 12-02-2013 at 1:14 PM.

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