NDA for a $45 job.

[Chuck Stone]

45 days is actually pretty good, Mike... some of the bigger engineering firms have no problem with 90-day (I've seen 120-day) terms, and if you don't like it, they'll find some other company willing to work for them.

My favorites are the ones who agree to Net 30, and still take 120 anyway.

Sometime the legalese just bogs everything down to the point where it isn't worth it.
I can remember my dad spending the better part of a year with a Fire Chief, hashing
out what they needed for a fire truck. My dad ended up writing the specifications, which
meant it was probably going to be a sale. At the last minute, the city went to HUD for
financing. In addition to the 20 pages of specs were another 140 pages of HUD demands
about manufacturing facilities, hiring practices, minority ratios etc. etc.
The city got 0 bids. Nobody would fill out the paperwork.
Even my dad didn't bid.. kissed a year's worth of work goodbye.

[Greg Bednar]

I like your reply which basically consisted of a one page "GFY" agreement which didn't need to be signed by anybody! - Of course, you could have played with their heads and charged them a $5,000.00 fee to sign the agreement to cover your costs. Or $10,000.00 or more! - if it's so important to them, it would be interesting to see just how big a dollar figure they would place on their logo.

[Mike Lassiter]

45 days is actually pretty good, Mike... some of the bigger engineering firms have no problem with 90-day (I've seen 120-day) terms, and if you don't like it, they'll find some other company willing to work for them.

that was what I meant Dan. If you want to do business with us you will have to play by our rules. They sent out bills for services rendered, and TOLD you when it was expected to be paid.

[Chuck Stone]

it would be interesting to see just how big a dollar figure they would place on their logo.

I'm still trying to wrap my brain around an NDA for a logo.

What good is a logo if nobody sees it?

[Dave Sheldrake]

In some cases the logo of a new product before release could be subject to an NDA, seems in this case it was just somebody in an office being told "make sure you always get NDA's signed" and took it literally.

Logos can be worth one hell of a lot of money, for example try using the "StarWars" logo as used on the film materials without a license for commercial use....A commercial use license for some of the Escher items cost me $1, other products cost me a stamp on the letter asking while another they wanted 7 figures before even considering a phone discussion (that needless to say never happened).

cheers

Dave

[Chuck Stone]

In some cases the logo of a new product before release could be subject to an NDA,

Sure.. but then would they be ordering an award with the logo on it?

[Dave Sheldrake]

If it's a well known previously seen logo...no idea

If it's a new logo they have not yet released then an NDA isn't unexpected. I guess we are kinda used to getting NDA's over here, same with requests for product liability and third party cover indemnities. Strangely enough this is a very discussion I've been having elsewhere this week. Some of the hoops we as UK manufacturers have to jump through to ensure we stay inside the law and in business are astounding.

How many woodworkers have made doll houses for the odd sale or so on.....yet here making and selling one (for profit) without 1,000+ pages of paperwork and accompanying documentation can lead to jail time quite easily. I have a filing cabinet full of paperwork just to do my day job that has to be kept for 10 years after I cease making a product. CE Marks, Kite Marks, BSI Marks, Lion Marks are just a few of them that depending on the perception of what something is has to be submitted for testing to avoid being shut down.

Toys!! just don't go there, a good friend was asked about making Yo-Yo's (the wooden spool with a string that goes up and down, I'm not sure what they are called over there) even with "NOT A TOY, ADULT USE ONLY" stamped in 2 inch high letters on the packaging because it is perceived as having play value it has to conform to the UK/EU toy regulations (that's $15,000 worth of paperwork and testing before even making the first one). Make the wooden bit 1/8th of an inch smaller diameter and off we go again back to the testing houses for certification (and another $15,000 up the river). So a 10 buck item is going to cost $15k before you can make the first one, that's why I wasn't overly surprised when Rod said he had an NDA turn up for a 50 buck job.

Export anything to the UK/EU or from the UK/EU to another country that requires paper trails and doesn't have them and it gets spotted, it gets seized and sent to the crusher (as well as a criminal investigation)

So I guess we get used to having piles of paperwork to do for even the most simple things. An NDA request comes in? it gets checked, signed and sent off.

cheers

Dave

[Rodne Gold]

At some point , the amount of time and effort spent on red tape is way more than the profit one makes..and at that point it's not worth doing the job.

[Doug Novic]

With all of the logos I place on products I have to constantly sign NDAs and confidentiality agreements BUT they are maybe one or two paragraphs and state that I will not advertise my business with their logos or use their logos on any product but theirs that they furnish to me. This is customary. I do have to agree with you that 11 pages is pretty excessive and a bit daffy to boot.

[Chuck Stone]

With all of the logos I place on products I have to constantly sign NDAs and confidentiality agreements BUT they are maybe one or two paragraphs and state that I will not advertise my business with their logos or use their logos on any product but theirs that they furnish to me. This is customary. .

I don't even know if that's NDA.. sounds like boilerplate copyright law.. which you'd have been bound by
without their agreement anyway. Maybe that just gives it more teeth. When I think of an NDA, I think
of trade secrets, inside information, recipes, formulas, advance knowledge.. etc. Things that could harm
the company if they were made known. In some cases you can violate an NDA by admitting you signed one.

[Walt Langhans]

I'm looking at getting custom metal dice (six sided) with my company logo on one of the sides, and I just sent the Chinese company my logo. I ALMOST asked for a copy of that NDA to send along with it... just to see what they would do... but I figured I already have enough checks in the naughty side of my ledger this year... LOL!

[Joe Pelonio]

45 days is actually pretty good, Mike... some of the bigger engineering firms have no problem with 90-day (I've seen 120-day) terms, and if you don't like it, they'll find some other company willing to work for them.

I have fired customers that took more than 45 days. With no advance deposit you have to purchase materials and pay the help, if they can't pay faster then that I'll let them go to someone else. I had one good customer move their AP cross country and went from 15 to 30+ days, but found they had a policy to accept all discounts so I offered them 5% for 15 day payment and they took it. For their volume it was worth the 5% to keep them but the 30 days was creating a cash flow problem with their materials alone running $3,000/month.

[Jerome Stanek]

When I did work for a branch of CVS they were net 90 they would not give on that. And some of the jobs were in the $12,000 range. I had to cover employee wages for that time.

[Dave Sheldrake]

90 isn't unusual here, I don't think I have any material / manufacturing clients who are on under 60 these days. Military is always, without fail 120....Some of the bigger US companies like Lee Valley are 90

cheers

Dave

[Mike Null]

That's not at all my experience. More firms are moving toward credit card payment some are on 30 day terms, some pay within a few days and I have three or four who must be reminded a couple of times. One of my wholesale jewelry customers, whose son is in charge of AP and is a real jerk, (I'd use stronger terms if allowed) must be reminded and visited to collect.

I do not accept gov't work unless it's a credit card pay.