Alcohol Drying??

[Carole Valentine]

At $40/gal I think I will stick to boiling and alcohol and let y'all do the experimenting with Cedar-whatever-it's-called.

[John Hart]

At $40/gal I think I will stick to boiling and alcohol and let y'all do the experimenting with Cedar-whatever-it's-called.

Yeah...I have to agree with you Carole...It's a bit expensive. In fact, despite my wealth, I'm going to have to wait a little while and sell off some stocks to get some! Actually, what I was thinking is that Alcohol gets water logged and becomes ineffective, whereas this cedar stuff can be recaptured and reused so it might actually be cheaper. We'll see...I'm willing to try it once and I'll give a full report....in the interest of science that is.

[John Hart]

Just as an update....I've decided not to buy this stuff. I received a "buyer beware" PM from a fellow Creeker so I decided to dig a little deeper on this Cedarshield solution. It really doesn't look like the level of success is any more than the alkie method or nuking in the microwave or even the traditional long-term-drying method. My overall feel is that cracks are going to occur in about 30% of the blanks and might have more to do with preparation of the blank than of the cedar stuff itself. Besides, one of the complaints is that it goops up your sandpaper.

So anyway, I'll just skip it for now.

[Dave Smith]

You got good information on DNA soaking from the good folks here. Boiling has been around for a long time and I have used the method myself with decent results. Boiling melts the lignum in the cells. When the wood cools the lignum hardens again. That is why wood is steamed for bending. As far as I know alcohol doesn't effect the lignum in the cells but I would not be surprised if it did soften it.

Alcohol and water are misabile which means that when they are put into the same container they will mix and create a uniform concentretion. This property is what causes alcohol to replace water in the wood. Both the free water and the cellular water will be diluted by alcohol. When wood is removed from the soaking solution the alcohol will migrate through the wood faster than water.

Boiling is not convienient for a few bowls turned over a weeks time. Alcohol soaking is more passive and easier to use. Once the bowl is wrapped there is nothing to do but wait and the wait is a not nearly as long as other methods of processing rough turned.

Good luck and feelfree to email me if you have more questions.

Dave Smith

Rain is warm, it must be summer in Longview, WA.

[Jack Savona]

Dave, what about the accumulating water content of the DNA? At what point do I add more DNA or do something to get rid of the accumulated water.


Jack

[John Hart]

Nice to hear from you Dave! Thought you fell off the planet.

[Dave Smith]

Ahh, the $64,000 question.
Hi Jack,

That is a conundrum. I have successfully soaked and dried wood with a solution as low as 34% alcohol. Lower alcohol concentration increases the drying time for a soaked piece. I try to keep the volume of solution small so I an add alcohol often to keep the alcohol concentration high. When I started collecting data to determine the validity of the process I wanted to keep the number of variables to a minimum. I knew there was going to be an optimum concentration of alcohol, soaking time, wall thickness, and things I haven't thought of for each spices of wood. In the end I settled on wall thickness and soaking time as the two parameters to vary. Then I tracked the drying time and made subjective observations of distortion and defects of dried pieces.

In conclusion I found that the process works. My intent was to find the edge of the envelope for minimum soaking and wall thickness that would result in a usable dried roughed out blank. Many people have altered the basic process with varying results then ask me why they are having a problem. In general I can't answer their question because I only have experience with a narrow set of parameters.

A SWAG for your question on alcohol concentration is 50% for the solution when beginning the soak.

Dave Smith

Probably said more than I know in Longview, WA.

[Jason Solodow]

My question is, is has anyone tired alcohol soaking or boiling fruitwoods or others in the form of short planks?

[John Hart]

I gave it a try Jason. I had some green pear that I wanted to make into a bandsaw box. I soaked it over night in IPA and then set it out to dry. To my surprise, it didn't move and it didn't crack. I still haven't done anything with the wood but they are all still flat. (They are 1/4" thick and various widths about 20" long)

My question is, is has anyone tired alcohol soaking or boiling fruitwoods or others in the form of short planks?

[Jason Solodow]

IPA? I thought we were talking about DNA? What is IPA? And, I'm thinking of thicker planks, like 1/2 to 1 inch.

[John Hart]

Sorry... IPA is 99% pure isoprophyl alcohol. Some folks don't like the way it smells but it does the same as DNA and I get it for free...that's why I use it. Smells fine for free!!

[Jason Solodow]

How the heck do you get it for free???

[John Hart]

I work at a BioChemical company and we have 10,000 gallon tanks of it. The company pays so little for it, they say, "just get some jugs and get it out of the spigot"

I don't know anything about chemistry or chemicals but the perks are pretty good.

[Chris Roessler]

I believe this is my first post here at the Creek in a LONG time... I just finished (this afternoon) cutting down and sectioning a large magnolia in my back yard I have anchor sealed the sections for now but I find the alcohol discussion very interesting; thanks for all the info on that subject. I have another question though.... What about microwave drying for the smallish blanks?