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Thread: Stratocaster Build - From Scratch

  1. #46
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    It must be remembered that Leo was originally NOT a guitar maker!! He had to make it all up as he went along. I wonder if he was looking at a violin when he came up with that severe radius .
    Last edited by george wilson; 01-03-2014 at 1:42 PM.

  2. #47
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    I added the sides to the router base, drilled a hole for the DC hose and attached the router. Using the sanding sled as a base to raise the router radius jig, I attached a scrap piece of milled fretboard wood with turner's tape to the radius jig. I set the max depth of cut at the center of the rough cut wood and started routing.


    The first pass I cut a little too deep and it chipped the edges but all that would have been cut away anyway. The whole process took less than FIVE MINUTES! I placed the radius beam on top of the newly routed board to compare...

    30 minutes of sanding and I didn't get these results.

    I hand sanded lightly to 320 grit and I was pretty pleased with the results. All in all it took me 10 minutes to get there. When I do the actual fretboard, I'll remove it from the router jib and put it in the sanding sled to finish the hand sanding. In less than the time it took me to ALMOST create the radius by hand-sanding with 80 grit, I'll be able to have the fretboard ready for the fret wire.

    One of the things I like about this jig is I can fine tune the thickness of the fretboard. The one above is 7.58mm. To get to 24.5mm (1"), with the neck and fretboard together, I need 7.4mm on the fretboard. I will probably get there after hand sanding, but if this was thicker, I could easily plane it down to a pre-sanding dimension. No need to ask cuz you already know, I won't attempt to radius the fretboard by hand again.

    Next jig will be the fret wire bender...

  3. #48
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    Looking good,Julie!! P.S.: I have a StewMac fret wire bender. It works very well and saves a lot of messing around. Most of my life I had none of these nice little devices. I'd just hammer fret wire into curves with a plastic hammer on a wood block.

    Though I haven't played Fender style guitars since high school, you guys are starting to get me interested in making one again. I had a Fender standard and traded it off. Had a real nice Tele reissue. Traded it off. I wish I hadn't.

    There's something real nice about feeling an unfinished all maple Fender style neck. I haven't enjoyed making one of those for many years now. Not since about 1957. Maybe I should get back to it.

    It would have been nice to have foresight. In the 60's I owned a 1952 Tele,and let it go,too. Back then,these vintage guitars weren't worth anywhere what they are now. They were just used guitars. Almost overnight things seemed to jump in price about 1986 or so. I had wanted a Gibson Super 400. You could get a vintage one for about $1200.00 in Washington,D.C.. By the several months time I made my mind up to go get one,they had doubled.
    Last edited by george wilson; 01-04-2014 at 8:09 AM.

  4. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by george wilson View Post
    Looking good,Julie!! P.S.: I have a StewMac fret wire bender. It works very well and saves a lot of messing around. Most of my life I had none of these nice little devices. I'd just hammer fret wire into curves with a plastic hammer on a wood block.

    Though I haven't played Fender style guitars since high school, you guys are starting to get me interested in making one again. I had a Fender standard and traded it off. Had a real nice Tele reissue. Traded it off. I wish I hadn't.

    There's something real nice about feeling an unfinished all maple Fender style neck. I haven't enjoyed making one of those for many years now. Not since about 1957. Maybe I should get back to it.

    It would have been nice to have foresight. In the 60's I owned a 1952 Tele,and let it go,too. Back then,these vintage guitars weren't worth anywhere what they are now. They were just used guitars. Almost overnight things seemed to jump in price about 1986 or so. I had wanted a Gibson Super 400. You could get a vintage one for about $1200.00 in Washington,D.C.. By the time I made my mind up to go get one,they had doubled.
    Back when I lived in Yonkers, I ran across a '57 Strat at a small music store in White Plains. He was asking $4000 for it...maybe $5000. I thought to myself, "Gee, that'd make a nice investment...I can probably get $10,000 for it one day". LOL. Should have snagged it. It was in perfect condition. I think I was a freshman in college, so I definitely couldn't buy it myself. This was maybe back in 1991. Incidentally, I played it and I didn't think it was anything special. Didn't sound very good either....meh, at best. I don't care what anyone says....the best guitars we've ever made are being made right now, today. We're in a golden age of luthiery, IMHO, at least as far as guitars and basses are concerned.

    But that doesn't hurt as much as your '52 Tele.
    Last edited by John Coloccia; 01-04-2014 at 8:14 AM.

  5. #50
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    I paid $75.00 for that 52 Tele. It is surprising what an incredible amount of excitement had been generated back in the 90's. I went to several guitar shows back then. Wonder if things have cooled of by now? I haven't been involved in collecting for years by now. My worn out left thumb joint has prevented me from playing for over 10 years. It is very painful,and I need to get it fixed.

    I did buy myself a Standel 25L15 amp a few years ago,thinking that its tone would inspire me to get back into playing. It is an amazingly clear amp. All the greats had one back in the 50's,though only a limited number were ever made. Buddy Merrill,with Lawrence Welk,got incredible tone from his. Chet Atkins used one,so did Joe Maphis and Merle Travis. Buddy lost his in a flood. I think only about 68 were ever made. Mine was made by the guy who now owns the company,Danny Mckinney It is called Requisite Audio. He learned from Mr.Bob Crooks(?),the original founder of the Standel company. He's a very,very nice guy to deal with. He goes about finding original JBL 15" speakers,the same ones used in originals. He pays a lot for them. I don't know how he keeps finding them. My speaker is just like new. The amps are exact copies of the old ones,and are not real cheap. Even the PLUG is a joy to look at!! I asked him where he found such quality plugs? He uses hospital quality plugs. The 25L15 is About $3400.00,IIRC. The JBL does not "propagate" a lot,and does not put out a lot of bass. Surprising for a 15" speaker. It puts out huge treble. I jack it through my Roland Jazz Chorus and get the most amazing tone,and all the bass you'd ever want. Incredibly clear tone. But,it shows the teeniest mistake in your playing!! I have several of those Roland speakers with the aluminum dome(which put out the most sparkling treble!) I've thought about making an extra speaker box and just jacking the Standel through that,to make a lighter weight outfit.(The Standel weighs 55# IIRC. That JBL is a heavy speaker!) The builder will sell me everything I need to make a repro speaker cabinet. What I need to do is make a plywood "mock up",put a Roland speaker in it and hear how it sounds before committing to a serious cabinet.

    By the way,the newer Roland Jazz Chorus amps do not have the aluminum dome speakers. I am sure the tone suffers. Those domes put out very high notes.
    Last edited by george wilson; 01-04-2014 at 9:40 AM.

  6. #51
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    It's crazy what vintage Fenders are going for today. Fender is even making "reliced" guitars, like beating a perfectly good guitar with chains and hammers and charging a premium for them. And people are buying them! Go to the Fender forums and you'll see the relic craze. I don't get taking a new guitar and making it look aged and well worn. Actual playing has to created the wear, IMHO.

    When I got the bug to do this, a whole lot of memories stirred up inside. I was back in 8th grade with my Sears bass and Silvertone amp playing in a band called "The Novi's", the "i" is long. Our drummer thought of the name. He said he read about what happens when a star explodes and said it's called a novi. It was many years later that I learned he didn't quite have it right. I slaved away for a year to buy the bass and amp. My dad sold them because he didn't want me to be a musician. But we had fun while it lasted.

    This is the most fun I've ever had woodworking. If the guitars put out decent sound, I may sell them at cost to those who can't afford the Fender decal. That would be a pretty special if that worked out.

    If you guys are going to take the plunge, take a lot of pics and post them here. This student has an insatiable appetite!

  7. #52
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    Great thread so far. I'm enjoying Julie's rapid progress as well as John and George's insight and expertise.

    Great stuff!

  8. #53
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    Curious about how the radius jig would work after the slots were cut, I took the partially sanded piece and put it in the jig. No chip out at all. I was surprised at how out of whack the sanding method had left it. Then I figured why not take it all the way to finished so I taped it to a neck and profiled it on the router table. I was taking too big a bite and a piece of the fretboard splintered off. I think I'll back-feed future fretboards.

    I chiseled out for the nut...


    and sanded to 320 and put a coat of amber shellac on it then prepared for the fret wire. I bent the wire by hand.


    I cut the wire and trimmed the tangs back with a tang nipper. Then used a caul on the drill press to press the rest of the fret wires in place. The pre-bent radius on the fret wire wasn't enough and some of them were up slightly on the ends.


    With the four fret wires and unfinished nut in place, I had reached the point where I felt ready to tackle the real thing.



    I installed the miter slides on the fret slot sled last night. Then my son came down and next thing you know he's cutting the slots. I showed him how to use the radius jig and he did the whole thing. Not one to miss out on a great opportunity, I brought out my power sander to finish sand the fretboard.



    Anxious to see the progress...

    "We're on a mission from God."

    And a little test to see how we're doing...

    Not bad!

    Still on the list is the fret wire bender. And I have to figure out a way to accurately drill for the dot inlays. Then I can do the final sanding on the fretboard. I'm thinking of laying shellac on it. Any problems with that?

  9. #54
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    Why do you want to shellac the fingerboard? I always just sprayed nitrocellulose lacquer on mine. Nothing underneath. I didn't want a different looking finish to start showing up after the lacquer got worn. Maybe it doesn't matter. The fingerboard will still look bad after the lacquer is worn through. Shellac has a tendency to get sticky when handled,too. Personally,I'd avoid it. If you DO use shellac,lacquer won't adhere to it unless the shellac is de waxed. Mixing finishes can lead to big trouble.

    Make sure you bend those frets enough. It's nearly impossible to get them all the way down if the ends want to lift,especially on a maple fingerboard. Hit hem too hard,and they will just pop up worse. Learn your mistakes on this chipped fingerboard,then go forward.

    Perhaps you could just compare their bend to the curve in the bottom of your router jig,and then bend them tighter than that curve,if you don't want to make a special jig to bend them to. Think about getting the Stewmac fret bending jig. It works really well. Unlike some of those endless gadgets they keep dreaming up,the fret bender really is a useful tool.

    For nipping my frets off, I take a CHANNELOCK(NOT a Black Diamond) end nipper and grind the end down to make a flush cut. Then,use them for NOTHING else. Stewmac sells this tool,but I just made mine with my belt grinder. I made a couple from Black Diamonds,and they just chipped out badly as if the tool was made from cast iron!! Channel Locks are so much better.
    Last edited by george wilson; 01-04-2014 at 12:32 PM.

  10. #55
    Shellac's fine. Maybe even preferred, though it's not as durable as lacquer. The feel of a shellaced neck is very nice, though.

    Just read what George wrote. LOL. This is why there are so many different guitars out there. None of use can seem to ever agree on anything

    It's looking good!

    re: fret wire
    Take a needle file and SLIGHTLY chamfer the edges of the slot...and I mean slightly. Fretwire is extruded and there is a tiny radius between the tang and the fret. Also, always overbend the wire a little unless you're using stainless...then it has to be a perfect match. With the overbent wire, hammer in the ends first, and then gently work you way in to the middle from both sides. As the middle seats, the wire straightens out and drives the tangs sideways for a really solid fit. It also makes sure the ends will never come up. A sure sign of a loose fret end is when you file them down, you'll hear a "squeak squeak squeak" as you pass over it

    For pressing, do everything the same....over bend and at least start the ends by hammering them in a bit. A plastic hammer would be best....brass face would be second best but it takes practice not to mar/dent the fret. Then for your 12" radius board, press the frets down first with the 9" caul to seat the ends....then the 10" caul to seat more of the middle. Drive it home with the 12" caul. You may even want to follow up with the 14" to make sure the middle is seated, but in practice the frets are sitting at a slightly larger radius than the fingerboard....the height of the fret larger, to be exact. The 12" caul won't actually fully seat the middle of the fret and my OCD would never allow that, though it's probably fine

    As you're hammering, it works best to align yourself parallel to the fret, not at 90 degrees to it. It's just easier to keep the hammer aligned properly. Use many light blows instead of few heavy blows.

    That's what works for me.
    Last edited by John Coloccia; 01-04-2014 at 12:29 PM.

  11. #56
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    Shellac not being as durable is a good reason to avoid using it on a surface that takes so much MORE punishment than anything else I can think of. Also,I HAVE had it soften with handling and get sticky. This is an important decision,so think carefully about what you decide.

    Making a lacquered fingerboard in the first place is not one of the greatest decisions that Leo ever made. But,he was not a guitar builder in the first place. However,a slick,lacquered neck and fingerboard does feel really nice until it wears out,which might be a good while if you aren't constantly playing hard rock on the neck.
    Last edited by george wilson; 01-04-2014 at 12:38 PM.

  12. #57
    [QUOTE=george wilson;2203303]Wonder if things have cooled of by now?

    Hard to tell. Some prices seem to have come down. Old Les Pauls are still in the stratosphere...asking price at least. I've seen a lot of guitars with high asking prices just simply not sell. My general sense is that it's maybe cooling down a little, or at least things are maybe moving slower, but there's no going back to the 80s and 90s. Shoot, even my 1989 American Standard Telecaster, that I think I paid $500 for new, is now worth more than $1000. I think my 1990 '57 strat reissue might be worth even more if it wasn't beat to hell. I think that's pretty ridiculous.

    I should post a picture of it as what a real "relic" looks like. The neck looks nice now because I refretted it and put a 12" radius on it, but it was absolutely BLACK at one point from playing....pretty much no finish left.

  13. #58
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    In this economy,lots of things shown on the Antiques Road Show have lost considerable value. Sometimes that show past values compared with today's. Pawn Stars is always mentioning what he no longer can get for stuff.

    I gave up on buying my Vintage Guitar magazine several years ago. (Was that the correct name?) Because my thumb has kept me from playing. And,I got tired of spending big bucks on guitars and amps I didn't need or use. I kept coming back to the 6120 repro I made in the 80's. It is my ideal guitar. Just sounds very right. he Roland Jazz Chorus with the Standel is as good as amps are getting,too,IF you play clean(Jazz C. sounds terrible distorted,I understand). I had 19 amps at one time! I still have quite a few. I always managed to find something wrong with most of them. On a Vox,for example,I found it played 1 particular note more prominently than the others. That drove me nuts. One had a tweeter that buzzed like a bee. I can't recall the name of that amp. I still have a mint Matchless first generation amp. It needs to get sold.

  14. #59
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    I was thinking of shellac because I have some made from amber flakes that I mixed up. It brings out the figure of the wood nicely and gives it a warm tone. I've read a number of comments by guitarists who said they like an unfinished neck and fretboard. I was thinking that's the way I'd go but there's a part of me that want's the guitar to LOOK good too. From the start I wanted to build something that always said, "Pick me up and PLAY ME!" I've known so many people in my life who owned guitars that eventually ended up collecting dust, or at least the case did. I wanted to make something so beautiful you'd feel guilty putting it away.

    Maybe that's a bit over ambitious, but that's my hope.

    George, I already got the ChannelLocks and ground them down. They work pretty well. I'll need to decide if I want to take one of my finer files and use that to put the bevel on the ends or buy a StewMac toy. I've seen the fret wire bender in videos. It work really well but it's $125. They probably charge that because it's a tool that, like you said, "Unlike some of those endless gadgets they keep dreaming up,the fret bender really is a useful tool." But this thing is tempting me. If my attempts at making something fail, I may be calling Stewie.

    John, that's some good advice about how to use the caul to set the fret wire in place. I was thinking maple would hold them well but that's not what happened. I have a plastic tip hammer that I used to drive in a test fret wire on a flat board and I did use it to tap in the ends.

    I took a triangular file and made a slight groove in the fret slots of the test piece. I was wondering if that had anything to do with the wire popping back out. I didn't know that stainless steel needed to be the exact radius. Thanks for that tip.

  15. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Julie Moriarty View Post
    I took a triangular file and made a slight groove in the fret slots of the test piece. I was wondering if that had anything to do with the wire popping back out. I didn't know that stainless steel needed to be the exact radius. Thanks for that tip.
    It's because the stainless won't really flex at all, so it pretty much needs to be dead nut or it will never seat right.

    It's very easy to make the chamfer at the fret slot too wide. It just takes the lightest touch. Honestly, it's better to under do it than over do it. If you over do it, the fret will not hold well. If you under do it, the fret will just stick up ever so slightly....not perfect, but not fatal like a fret that doesn't hold. You can always rebuild the fret slot if you have to with the StewMac teflon strips and superglue, and you can even put the frets in with glue (or fix a fret that won't stay down with glue. The glue won't stick to the frets, but it will form around the tang and hold it in tightly. There are lots of ways to do it. I tend to fret with no glue if I can avoid it. Some people use Titebond as a matter of course. Some people wick in superglue after fretting (you must be sure to keep it off an unfinished maple board!). Some people use hot hide glue. There was a small fad for a while of epoxying the frets in...went hand and hand with some whacky fretting system...not my cup of tea

    If I'm working on a customer guitar with a proud fret that won't stay down, I wick in some superglue and that keeps it down, and that also works to tighten up a fret end that's loose and squeaking...but it won't do much to hold down fret ends that don't fit right. Once that end pops up, you may as well remove the fret, fix the slot if necessary, and start over IMHO.

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