Stratocaster Build - From Scratch

[george wilson]

An unfinished neck will soon look dirty and gray as I'm sure you must know. Years ago Gibson came up with the idea of having an unfinished neck on a classical guitar. It had wood filler in it,but no finish. No one would buy it,and soon dealers who could were spraying finishes onto their necks. This was in the 60's. They also used a DECAL for the rosette!! some were sloppily trimmed near the fingerboard and could be seen for what they were. How CHEAP could Gibson get????

I have mentioned this before,but in the 60's I found a source for spruce tops,already smooth and joined down the middle for $1.50 each. The supplier told me they were selling the same tops to KAY guitars. Thing was,those tops were a 1/8" thick sliced veneer. Every grain had been broken during the slicing process,and you could literally bend the tops into a circle!! No strength at all. They were all made from an extremely tight grained Sitka spruce,but it must have been soft spruce to have allowed cutting into veneer like that. I think the hard and the soft grains were nearly identical in softness. I have seen plenty of wide grained spruce that was plenty hard. It depends upon the minerals the tree grew up with more than how tight the grain is.

So,I wouldn't buy any Gibson newer than the 50's,unless it is a new Montana made Gibson.

Oh,I also saw a Hummingbird with brash thickness planer marks all across the back. Even came through the finish. Not sanded at all. What miserable garbage they were apparently turning out in that era. Just my opinion,based on what I saw. But,I wasn't stupid.

[Julie Moriarty]

Just ran across this video on shellac from Dan Erlewine.

The shellac I have made up is garnet. We're in the midst of a nice winter storm. Good time to do some experimenting.

[george wilson]

The use of shellac on a finished surface like that is to be highly advised against,unless the whole rest of the surface is the same shellac. We had to use it as well as oil based violin varnish(which is a fine finish) for years in the musical instrument maker's shop for historic reasons. However,be advised that it is a very cheap finish. The cheapest finish ever devised. In the 17th. C. they knew this,and I read a treatise about it from that period cautioning how treacherous it is. It does not stay glossy,and it is not good with moisture.

I knew this perfectly well when we finished the spinet in our instrument making film. The spinet started out beautifully glossy,but over some few years,it lost that gloss. (We were under a great deal of pressure to get the film done,and could not wait for an oil based varnish to dry.) The same thing will happen to that guitar,especially if it is used to "patch"an existing surface. Eventually,the shellac will stand out like a sore thumb. At least,the spinet looks consistent all over. Looks o.k. for now,but what about the future? Personally,I hate to have to spend my time on warranty work. I try to get it right the first time.

There are some shellacs that do better. My favorite is Siam seedlac. I was not aware of it in 1973. It has not been processed like the more refined shellacs. Indeed,it comes in the form of crusty bits peeled right off of twigs. It has to be dissolved in alcohol,and not disturbed while a brush is carefully dipped into the top surface. It could be strained,but it is very difficult to get rid of the little tiny bits of debris in it no matter what I have tried. So,I just use it as described.

I think some essential ingredients are lost during refining. Seedlac does retain its gloss. I have shellacked some things with it 20 years ago,and it is still glossy. I made a little quartered oak tool cupboard for my milling machine that long ago,finished with Siam Seedlac. For how much longer it will stay glossy,I don't know,but it definitely out lasts the few years of gloss that regular refined shellacs last.

During my 39 years in the museum,I was able to learn a lot from the World class group of furniture conservators we have there as well as other conservators and master craftsmen. I spent so much time recreating old varnish formulae that my boss got a bit tired of it. However,that did not stop me. He did not understand the importance of violin finishes. Finishes are indeed an essential part of instrument making,and I was especially interested in them. This included formulae for various French polishes as well. They generally include some other resins such as gum sandarac,
mastic and other resins to help with hardness and gloss. These would be worth your time to research.

[Julie Moriarty]

It seems to me George, that the finish part is the Holy Grail of building the guitar. If lacquer weren't so toxic, it would be a no-brainer. If it was warm outside instead of -15, I'd probably do the lacquer spraying outside. And waiting until spring isn't appealing to me like it was earlier in the thread.

The green end of the spectrum is using waterborne products. Target's EM6000 has been mentioned earlier but, if I recall correctly, it just couldn't compete with lacquer. It's interesting to note StewMac used to sell EM6000 as a WB alternative but now sells 7000HBL. I think it was Chris who said you can't repair that stuff. They also sell the WB Color Tone brand. On their website, the 7000 gets reviews from 1-5. They don't feature it in their latest catalog though.

I made a chess board about 12-15 years ago. I used a WB gloss poly to finish it. It was my first foray into WB finishes. Today that chess board hasn't yellowed a bit. It's held up to hundreds of chess games and the occasional mishap. I didn't go through all the sanding, flattening and polishing usually associated with guitar finishing but it still looks pretty good. So why doesn't anyone use WB poly on guitars?

It's easy to see why finishing is so confusing.

I still don't know what I'm going to do. I want something to bring out the figure in the neck and fretboard woods. I won't dye those woods but I do want something that enhances the natural properties of the wood without detracting from the playability of the instrument. And what that will be, I don't know.

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After two days messing around with making a fret wire bender, I think I finally have something to rival the StewMac version. When it's done, I'll provide pics.

[george wilson]

I guess I'm old fashioned,but I like the looks of Nitro. Probably I have COPD from breathing it. Got downright sick from a kidney infection in the 60's from spraying it frequently.

I bought a big bottle of water base from Woodcraft years ago. I put some on a block of very dry maple,where it sat for several months without drying past a rubbery,sticky stage. Probably never did dry. It looked like water with ground up rice in it,cooked to death. When it did get reduced to the rubbery stage,it still reflected the lumpy texture it had when wet. Boringly featureless,too. Like a permanent splotch of water. At least the rice went away.

As long as I can still get it,I'll keep on spraying nitro,and TRY(usually the wind gets fickle as soon as I start to spray!) to stay up wind from it. I have never enjoyed the luxury of a spray booth in my home shop. Just don't have the room.

I wonder why Grizzly wants so much money for theirs? The filters will run you into the poor house too.

I could run down to the paint shop at the museum and use theirs,and have done that before. But,hanging around the paint shop all day isn't my favorite thing to do. They have great booths there,though.

I have a new Brian Setzer Gretsch guitar that is finished with some kind of poly finish. It looks cool and un interesting. They offer a nitro sprayed one,but it costs a LOT more. Besides,I traded for it anyway. The necks on these new Gretsch Japanese guitars are too narrow to suit my large hands. I still prefer the repro I made before they revived the Gretsch name. I didn't care to pay $10,000 for an original plywood guitar anyway. Plywood is better for an electric,but it is still plywood,not a carved arch guitar. The only reason they are worth much is because of Chet Atkins.

[Julie Moriarty]

I finished the fret wire bender and it seems to work well.

The hardest part was making the center wheel and axle. I had to thread the end of a piece of 3/8" rod, drill two (2) 1/4" pane washers (thick ones) for tapping a 3/8-16 thread. Then I inserted spacers between the washers to allow for the fret tang and the barbs to pass through, without flattening the barbs. The threads on the washers were a bit off center and not perfectly perpendicular. I ended up taking it to the lathe and filed it round, did a little fudging to make it almost perpendicular to the shaft and used a hack saw to make sure there was enough clearance between the washers. The other wheels are from a patio door screen bottom and run on ball bearings.

I made a 3/4" x 1-3/8" round spacer for the back of the shaft, cut an arm for the handle and glued them together. Then I added the plastic handle. On top I found some bracket material lying in a parts box and cut a 1/4-20 thread in it. Can't put much pressure on that or it will bend, but it's strong enough to bend the fret wire. I used turner's tape to adhere another piece of the bracket material to the top of the sliding center. The tongue and groove joints were cut on the table saw and trimmed with a plane.

It took way too many hours to do the R&D and then make the thing but it was better than paying the $125 StewMac was asking for theirs.

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I decided to do a test run on drilling for the tuning machines. I needed to drill a hole .385" diameter. I only had a 3/8" and 1/2" forstner bits so I drilled the 3/8" in the test piece. It wasn't enough to even get the tuning shafts started. Hopefully the peghole reamer will take care of the rest. That's on order.

In the meantime I can rough cut the fretboard and glue it to the neck.

I'm guessing making the jigs and templates has probably taken up 1/3 or more of the time invested so far but I'm really happy with how they turned out. Testing probably took another 1/3. Making the next one should be a breeze.

[george wilson]

Julie,you are a very good mechanic!! You mention a lathe. Is it a wood or a metal lathe? You have made so many jigs ,you could go into guitar production!!

[Julie Moriarty]

Julie,you are a very good mechanic!! You mention a lathe. Is it a wood or a metal lathe? You have made so many jigs ,you could go into guitar production!!

It's a wood lathe. I used a metal file and a hacksaw to do the fine tuning. But I once worked in a factory where they put me on a metal lathe for a couple of weeks. I was fascinated seeing it cut metal!

As for the jigs, the thought did cross my mind to make them and sell them. I've made a few jigs before but they all ended up being one time jigs and some I never used. I came to hate making them. But this time I'm actually enjoying it. Maybe I was a luthier in another life.

[george wilson]

I used to be a methodist but now I am a luthier. I used to tell that to the public. My first thought would have been to make the fret bender out of all metal. That would have been much more work. That happens to your mind when you have machine tools!!

Julie,with the large building I have,it is so full of tools,machines and wood,I would not be able to find places to put all your jigs. Seriously! If you want me to make you a thicker brass bar with 1/4-20 threads in it,send me your mailing address in a PM. Include all dimensions. I could also make you a better grooved top wheel if you send the dimensions. I have plenty of fret wire,so don't need the width of the groove(or,I can just measure my Stewmac wheel's groove.)

One thing I wouldn't mind making is a guitar that looks like the tele bass. They are cool looking. Obviously there would be alterations due to the scale length,but I'd keep the pick guard and other details. I need to get my book out and look at it again.

One problem in making real close sounding repros of the tele is their steel bridge surrounds used to be hardened steel,I am pretty sure. That affects the tone,as well as pickups,etc.. Am I mistaken? It's been quite a while. Why did Leo do that? Hardened steel holds magnetism better than soft steel is the only reason I can think of. But,the magnets are in the pickups,of course. Some residual magnetism might have been picked up by the surround,I suppose. However, the sound is produced by fluctuations in the magnetic field going through the pickup coils. So,it sort of seems counter productive to try to set up a permanent magnetic field. Hope this makes sense. I wonder if those real early Rickenbacher
"horse shoe magnet" style pickups that went clear around the strings were hardened steel? If so,he could have gotten his idea from them. The actual magnet was down below. My first amp,bought about 1956 well used, was a Ricky off a bakelite frying pan steel guitar. It was VERY weak,and hummed too. It had a field coil speaker rather than a permanent magnet speaker that gave a constant 60 cycle hum. It looked like an ugly 19th. C. suitcase,or something. It was so ugly,I made a new cabinet for it,not realizing that many decades later it would be collectible. I could have waited 40 years and asked $800.00 for it!! At the time,I paid $35.00,which was probably too much.

[Julie Moriarty]

Yesterday I went to rough saw the fretboard my son had prepared. The light raked off it and I saw some chip out at a fret slot. Closer inspection revealed even more.

Some of the chip out would be hidden by the fret wire but the chip outs around the nut won't. Maybe he ran the router over it too fast. This didn't happen on the trial piece. I'll need to find out why.

[george wilson]

You will have to do a lot of sanding. Hope your fret slots don't get too shallow.

[Julie Moriarty]

Can't go any further unless I want to delve into "less than 1" thick Fender neck" territory. It's right at 1" now. Not a big deal though. I'm still in school and we students make a lot of mistakes. I wasn't really crazy about the figure on that wood anyway. Today I milled four pieces of jatoba for fretboards. Once this cold snap eases, I'm going shopping for some more traditional fretboard and neck woods.

Earlier today I made a board for running the fretboards through the planer. That's the jatoba in the pic below. I think it works better with the guitar woods.

We'll be tunneling a new east wing into the basement to store all the new jigs and templates and wiring it with 220, 221, whatever it takes...

[John Coloccia]

You can fix the chip-out AFTER you finish the neck with a little bit of CA. If you do it now, you might discolor the neck. The other solution is lay some lacquer down over the chipped areas to seal it, and then fix with CA. THEN fret and finish as usual. It won't be invisible, but no one will notice it. The trick with maple is the first finish that touches wood needs to be consistent along the whole neck or it will be obvious. After that, you can drop fill with CA if you really need to.

[Shawn Pixley]

One thing I wouldn't mind making is a guitar that looks like the tele bass. They are cool looking. Obviously there would be alterations due to the scale length,but I'd keep the pick guard and other details. I need to get my book out and look at it again.

George, I like the idea. I was thinking of doing a blackguard style Bajo Sexto. I think the baritone scale and the single coil tone would sound great.

[Julie Moriarty]

You can fix the chip-out AFTER you finish the neck with a little bit of CA. If you do it now, you might discolor the neck. The other solution is lay some lacquer down over the chipped areas to seal it, and then fix with CA. THEN fret and finish as usual. It won't be invisible, but no one will notice it. The trick with maple is the first finish that touches wood needs to be consistent along the whole neck or it will be obvious. After that, you can drop fill with CA if you really need to.

Thanks John. I'm learning a lot here. Unfortunately, Murphy decided to stop by and wreak havoc, probably a result of the mind-dulling effects of a nasty cold. It's affected my enthusiasm. I'll give the CA fix a try and see how it goes. If only I could figure out a way not to waste so much. I'm guessing 90-95% of all the CA I buy gets tossed. Either the tip becomes too clogged to use or the contents go bad. Nothing I've done seems to prevent that.

This morning I went to prep for the inlay dots and something didn't look right. I swear I ordered 1/4" dots but found out this morning they are 5/16". I laid them out on a fretboard but they look too big at the lower frets.

Do I need to get the 1/4" dots or will this work?