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Thread: Veneer help.

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Wyoming
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    Veneer help.

    Good morning,
    Joe G at Veneer Supplies suggested I contact this learned body for some assistance. I am rebuilding a 1905 Brambach grand piano, and I have a couple of questions concerning the application of new veneer.
    Let me preface the questions with the following: this is my first foray into the refinishing world, the current veneer has some pretty good gouges and dings in it, as well as some edges that are chipped and corners separated (hence the rationale to recover)
    1. Can I apply over the old veneer or do I need to strip the old veneer completely.
    2. As a vacuum seal process is not viable, what would be the best method and product to accomplish this task?
    Any other tips and tricks that will make this job easier are greatly appreciated.

    thanks in advance
    Thane

  2. #2
    To the best of my knowledge, most veneers in that time period used hide glues for gluing the veneers. You can use heat or vinegar to soften the hide glue. You'll probably need a scraper to get it all off. From there you'll be able to sand it back to where it was before the veneer was originally applied. From there, I'd use bendable plywood strongly supported by bracing curved to match all parts of the piano, less the veneer thickness. Lots of time and materials going into the press forms but I can't think of any other way to apply even pressure over the entire surface of the veneer without vacuum bagging.

    It's certainly an ambitious project and I wish you the best of luck in completing it. Maybe the brain trust here can come up with a better plan to make this job easier.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Veneer used to be applied by the "hammer veneering" method. Roy Underhill did a show where he had a veneering guy come in and demonstrate veneering by this method. If you could dig up that show and watch it several times,writing down notes,you will find it useful where you can't otherwise clamp.

    I'm not a good computer user. Maybe someone here who knows how,could direct you to that show. I had to make and veneer a large harpsichord when I first came to Williamsburg in 1970. No one in the museum had done any veneering. I wish I had this knowledge back then. I got the job done just fine,but hammer veneering would have made things a LOT easier. Over the years,this knowledge has been researched and revived by a few practitioners. As a guitar and violin maker,I haven't had to worry about it much.

    A problem you might encounter is veneers have gotten a lot thinner in recent years. 1/28" used to be standard,1/16" or more in early times. Today,1/40" OR THINNER is the norm. If your new veneer butts up against old veneer,it will not be level with it.
    Last edited by george wilson; 12-21-2013 at 12:28 PM.

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the info. Will give me something to cogitate on. Still unsure if I need to remove the old veneer first however. Your thoughts?

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    I say try to repair it. That is the way a CONSERVATOR(not Rick's Restorations on T.V.) would go about it. And,you don't have to cut any deeper than the thickness of the new veneer. It is also quite possible to steam out pretty significant dings if the wood was just mashed. If it is not there,from being gouged out,then you have to patch it.

    You will be preserving the history of the piano if you conserve the old veneer.

  6. #6
    In veneering the general rule is that whatever you do to one side you also do to the other side, so I would think you would want to avoid adding a layer of veneer over the show side only. I guess it depends what you and the customer are trying to accomplish. If a section of veneer is damaged and needs to be replaced, the right way to do it, generally, would be to remove the damaged veneer and replace it. As far as modern veneers being thinner, well, you might have to cut your own to whatever size you need, which is generally not that big a deal, especially for small amounts.

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    As George said, I'd recommend not removing all the old veneer and replacing. I would recommend steaming and patching as a restoration. I refinished an old Steinway upright circa 1907. It was veneered with African Mahogany. The piano had sat for a while and had damage to the veneer. I was able to keep much of the original veneer by steaming some dents, removing some, flattening and the reveneering, and patching in some new. Worked well. With pianos, due to the size and weight, you bring your tools to the work rather than just plopping it on the bench. That can present some interesting challenges. Hammer veneering is your friend there. You'll find making some specialized cauls and jigs are likely required.

    The piano we restored was for my younger brother. My brother now repairs, restores and rebuilds high end pianos (Steinway, Bosendorfers, etc...). His work is primarliy on the mechanisms but he does the cosmetic work as well. Occasionally, he will have me fabricate something for him, but he has mad skills of his own. In addition to pianos, he is now building and restoring banjos. I think he got his carreer interest from watching the piano restoration.
    Shawn

    "no trees were harmed in the creation of this message, however some electrons were temporarily inconvenienced."

    "I resent having to use my brain to do your thinking"

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