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Thread: Planemakers floats question -

  1. #1
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    Planemakers floats question -

    Some extra money might be coming in, so I was thinking about picking up some plane-makers floats, as I'm always thinking I'm going to get into gear and make a wooden plane. Not that I couldn't make do without them, but they seem like they'll make some things easier, and it removes one more excuse for me not to get my butt in gear.

    Eventually I'd like to make both some bench and molding planes. I'm going to go back and re-read some threads where David and other made recommendations, and re-watch the Larry Williams video before I purchase anything, but looking at my options, I'm curious about the "small cheek float" Lie Nielsen sells:

    http://www.lie-nielsen.com/planemake...-cheek-floats/

    Where in construction would that be more useable than the standard side float?

    http://www.lie-nielsen.com/planemake...s/side-floats/

    There seems to be some overlap in where they would each be used, just wondering others opinions.
    " Be willing to make mistakes in your basements, garages, apartments and palaces. I have made many. Your first attempts may be poor. They will not be futile. " - M.S. Bickford, Mouldings In Practice

  2. #2
    When you're working specifically on widening the cheeks, it's a useful tool to have. It's nice if you only have two for the sides of the tools to have a pull side float and a push cheek float. You can do the far reaches with the pull side float and push the cheek float to avoid blowing anything out of the top of the mortise. If course, you could get the job done with the opposite if you had to, that's just the ones of the batch I end up using (and for some reason, I have them all except the narrow edge float (had made one already) and the heavy bed float (no use for one that doesn't flex) - I think I was hard up for christmas gift ideas the year they came out).

  3. #3
    I think the small cheek floats are good for "floating" isolated areas. If you plan to make your own floats, these are 2 of the easier ones, as there is not as much metal to remove. Such as the case with the bed float.

  4. #4
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    I have to wonder how prone to setting up chattering the larger float,with straight across cut teeth would be. I have not made floats with straight across cut teeth myself. Just wondering without having personal experience with such a float. I guess it is returnable if it chatters?

  5. #5
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    Cheek floats are useful in areas that you need to clean up that you can't reach with a full side float, e.g. when you can't run the small end of the float out through the mouth (or don't want to). It's not necessary, but it is handy.

    As Richard said, the cheek floats are the easiest to make yourself, since there is so much less tooth area to cut. Put your purchases [first at least] toward the bed floats and side floats, which are a bear to hand cut. Edge floats are easy to make too in comparison.

    I also like pull for a side float and push for most everything else, though there are times when you might prefer either.

    I haven't had any chattering issues with my floats, but they are hand made and definitely irregular (slightly) in spacing, so maybe that helps like a hand-stitched rasp.

    BTW, The Iwasaki milled-tooth files make pretty good bed floats too. (A side float will also do that job.)

  6. #6
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    I have the LN Bed Float and the LN Mortise Float.
    The Bed Float is 1" X 1/8" X 7 1/4" and is a push float. I was using it today to shape the legs on a chair I'm making. The wood is figured maple. The float does not shatter at all. I was even using it on end grain and didn't feel any chatter, almost getting a planed like surface.

    The mortise float is 1/2" X 1/4" X 7 1/4" and is a push float. It is not as smooth as the Bed Float, but is agrressive in the cut.

    My other shaping tool is an Ariuou #10 rasp and it didn't get used today.

  7. #7
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    That sounds good.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by george wilson View Post
    I have to wonder how prone to setting up chattering the larger float,with straight across cut teeth would be. I have not made floats with straight across cut teeth myself. Just wondering without having personal experience with such a float. I guess it is returnable if it chatters?
    The bed float is more useful on furniture mortises and trimming joints to fit than it is on a plane bed. In my opinion, a good chisel and a good other chisel that's been blunted to use as a scraper are more useful. Mostly, the first tooth or first couple want to do the work on the bed float and the rest of the teeth just sit there. I rehardened a socket chisel that I ground to 90 degrees and didn't temper it, and then glued in a long handle that I can basically hold under my chin with my fist and lean into) and it's a lot more productive on bench planes than a bed float.

    Bill carter suggested doing such with a chisel, and for reasons I can't remember, I put a fairly long handle on it (i can't remember if bill suggested that).

  9. #9
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    I used the Iwasaki file/float/rasps to make four planes from parts I got got from Steve Knight. All the wood I used was purple heart, even the totes. The Iwasakis worked great and I use them for all sorts of other touch up work too. They are available from Highland Woodworking or Lee Valley. Highland had them on sale fro quite a while, which is why I ended up with about 8 of them. Since I bought mine they have even come out with more interesting shapes, curves, even circular ones. They are easily the best machine made rasp/floats. I have used mine for years and they still work like new, hardened Japanese steel teeth, kinda like Japanese saw teeth.

    Benchcrafted makes a tool called a Skraper, "full carbide scraper", which is a single edged tool kinda like a chisel but with a "blunt" front end, sort of like David mentions above but with a shorter handle. Not out of reach at $34.
    Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 12-20-2013 at 8:00 AM.

  10. #10
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    Those Japanese curved tooth files are sharp as blazes,and work very well!! I was very generously gifted a pair by a member here,and they are great,probably better than straight tooth floats(Which I DID used to make.People kept begging them off of my bench for $$$).

  11. #11
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    In my earlier post I mis-spoke. The bed float is 3/16" thick.

    I followed the instructions and sharpened the float immediately after receiving it. I've had that float a while.

  12. #12
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    If your interest for these floats is specifically plane making, which you've made fairly clear, then I would highly recommend the Plane Maker's Side Float as your first. This float is fairly critical in plane making, especially when dealing with such a tight mortise in the smaller molding planes. I see no other efficient way to open up a mortise on these planes. This float is also helpful in establishing the proper angle for the wedge portion of the mortise. I also recommend you get this float as a push float to prevent from blowing out the top of the mortise, as David said already. You just need to be careful when getting down on the mouth of the plane so you don't blow out that end with tip of this float.

    I really struggled with this decision when I first decided to make some molding planes but after watching Larry's incredibly detailed DVD and getting some great advice from David W. I settled on this side float and got an 1/8" edge float as well. I probably should've just made my own edge float but wanted to be set up right then (I have the ability to just drive over to LN). One of these days I plan to make myself a thicker edge float and a small cheek float.

  13. #13
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    Oh and I also agree with David that a blunted chisel is better suited at flattening the bed than a dedicated Bed Float. I started out with file that I ground at around 80 deg with a slight burr left behind, which worked fairly well until I eventually sacrificed a chisel to the purpose.

  14. #14
    This is slightly OT, but…I know a number of people here have had success making their own floats. Has anyone ever tried "pre-hardened flat ground" stock? You can get this from Enco and other places; it's 4142 steel. I looked up the specs and it's 27-32 rc, which is softer than the LN floats, but about twice as hard as mild steel. It's about $35 for a 3-foot piece of 1/8 x 1, which would make a lot of floats. Any tjhoughts would be appreciated.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Voigt View Post
    This is slightly OT, but…I know a number of people here have had success making their own floats. Has anyone ever tried "pre-hardened flat ground" stock? You can get this from Enco and other places; it's 4142 steel. I looked up the specs and it's 27-32 rc, which is softer than the LN floats, but about twice as hard as mild steel. It's about $35 for a 3-foot piece of 1/8 x 1, which would make a lot of floats. Any tjhoughts would be appreciated.
    Interesting. I haven't tried that, but I made my floats from mild steel. Total cost for material was probably $10, plus a hacksaw, 3-square bastard file, and a taper file. Hardened tool steel would be better, but these worked fine for the 4 hollow and round pairs I made, plus occasional joinery usage. YMMV.

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