Hand Saw Sharpening files?

[maximillian arango]

I have been looking for hand sharpening and I've seen the ones from Lee Valley which looks like a great sets but I can't justify spending that much on files. I have right now in my amazon cart a cheapo set and was wondering is it worth going for the Lee Valley set or can I get by with the cheapo set. I am holding off till next week since I will be going to the met life stadium flee market and a few others in Manhattan to see if I can find any old ones.


~max

[David Weaver]

saw files are something you have to buy clean vintage or new high quality.

Don't buy files before you have saws that you need to sharpen. The needle file set that you showed from amazon is something that you want to avoid buying.

[maximillian arango]

What would be vintage brands to look for, new high quality would be out of my range. I'm guessing that LV is a bargain after seeing the other file set prices and the LV set is nicely organized to tpi.

[James Tibbetts]

How many different tpi saws will you need to sharpen? Check here to find a range of file size to tpi. You may only need one or two for a good while.

[Bill Houghton]

I understand that Slav Jelesijevich, who can be found hanging out on WoodNet (do a search on his name there), has and sells a vast array of rasps and files. He might be able to fix you up, once you know what sizes you need.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

There can be a false economy in buying a huge set of files - how many different saws to you need to sharpen? What condition are they in? I often start on a poor-condition saw with a cheaper file from Sears and then move to the nicer files for the last pass and subsequent sharpenings. I have the whole set from Lee Valley, but honestly, with the handful of saws I have, I can get by with the same handful of files for most of my needs. Depending on what you have to sharpen, you could very well do better by buying boxes of the few sizes you need - you get fewer sizes, but can pay much less per file and get just the sizes you need.

Needle files are handy, and often a cheap one does the job fine, but since you're talking about sharpening, most of the files in the set you link aren't triangular or three-square files, so aren't really suited to sharpening handsaws, and even the appropriately shaped files in the "needle file" size are only really suited for the finest pitched teeth, and with finer toothed saws like that, I actually prefer a nicer quality file, where-as with something like my larger rip-toothed saw, I'm a little more likely to let a cheaper file do the job.

The price of the Lee Valley files (at least looking at the per-file price) isn't terrible in my opinion, considering I've gotten much more use out of those compared to the files I can buy locally.

[maximillian arango]

I have bought 4 in the past 2 weeks I expect to have 16+ or so by the end of spring so I would rather spend more now for a set rather then buy them as I need.


I have a few more questions:

What type do I need? diamond? steal?

Is their a certain style I need? American pattern, Swiss pattern or any others?

[maximillian arango]

After what you guys have said I am just going to take my piggy bank to td next week and get the LV set just seems like a better value than buying individually.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Go for steel over diamond. In my experience, I wouldn't worry too much about pattern; but I just tend to grab what's available.

Unless you're picking up one every TPI or something, I still think there's a false economy in buying a set of every sized file - these are eventually disposable things, you'll wear through them, and depending on how much work you need to put into a saw and how nice a file you need, you might find yourself going through them faster than you expect. Just keeping a saw in good shape sharp and they can last a while if you buy nice files.

I have the LV set - I've used most of them, but not on saws.

If you're trying to squeeze every penny or find yourself sharpening a whole lot, you'll save more money in the long run buying a box or in bulk of the same size than buying one of each size. If you look around at the charts for what size file to use, there's a fair amount of overlap, and for initial roughing in of saws in bad shape, you can get by with a larger size and then go back and put the final edge on with the smaller file.

In all reality, I think I basically use one size file for my rip saws, one size for my crosscut and miter saw, and one for my joinery saws. I haven't had great luck with the newer Nicholson files (there's plenty of discussion of that here) but I've had good luck with the cheaper files from Sears, at least with the intial touch up of old tools that come into the shop.

I think Tools For Working Wood had a slightly better deal on the Grobet files last time I checked. I like them. I stumbled across a couple of old red-tang simonds at a flea market and love those the best so far.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

After what you guys have said I am just going to take my piggy bank to td next week and get the LV set just seems like a better value than buying individually.

I think if you add up the cost (just going from LV) you only save a like four bucks buying the whole set, vs each file individually plus the tool roll. I've got the whole set, and I really like having it - never know when a file might come in handy, and having another size up or down is handy if you've totally trashed the next one over, but dropping an unneeded size might still be cheaper!

[Chris Vandiver]

American pattern taper saw files are what you're after and are what is commonly sold as files for sharpening western saws. It is probably better to buy the sizes you need now rather than buying a set of different sizes, many of which you may never need or use. Look for Bacho brand. Good files at a pretty fair price. Buy a box of the size you need. Lie Nielsen also carry some good files. For your first time sharpening a saw, start with a large tooth rip, like a 5ppi. It's easier to learn that way. There are a few good tutorials on the web for sharpening saws. I like this one; http://home.grics.net/~weir/saw_restoration.html

Good luck

[maximillian arango]

If you're trying to squeeze every penny or find yourself sharpening a whole lot, you'll save more money in the long run buying a box or in bulk of the same size than buying one of each size. If you look around at the charts for what size file to use, there's a fair amount of overlap, and for initial roughing in of saws in bad shape, you can get by with a larger size and then go back and put the final edge on with the smaller file.

I know most likely I will end up not using each one but I would like to have each size in case and after I see which ones I will be using most I plan on buying the more used sizes in bulk. On top of that the saws I do have are all different tpi so it isn't a big deal getting different files.

[Kim Malmberg]

Maximillian
Please feel free to buy what you want and to what cost and value you want. But as several others in this and other related threads have said you will only be wasting your money if you buy too many and too cheap saw files. I started filing saws three years ago and I have now logged several hundred hours in which time I have tried just about any file brand I've seen. When I buy saw files nowadays I only buy good files. Like most others I strive to find vintage NOS files buy if not available I buy modern Bahco files which in my opinion are the best saw files being made today. They are not as good as the old Nicholsons or Öberg's but compared to the junk most companies produce the Bahco files are well worth the money and they last rather well.
As far as filing a wide range of teeth configurations is concerned you don't have to have one file for every TPI. With three different sizes you will be able to cover most saws. But what you will find out is that you need several files of the same size as your files will wear.
The only reason I still buy cheap and poor files is that some of the saws I file have rusty teeth and might need so much reshaping that I prefer to sacrifice cheap files for tasks like these and keep my good ones for finishing the teeth.

[David Weaver]

What would be vintage brands to look for, new high quality would be out of my range. I'm guessing that LV is a bargain after seeing the other file set prices and the LV set is nicely organized to tpi.

Nicholson (US Made)
Heller
Simonds (USA)
Grobet (*don't* buy anything labeled "Grobet USA", it's actually indian production)
Pferd
Bahco
Disston

It's uncommon, for me at least, to find much in vintage files that aren't used up or that the sellers don't want more than new price for. Files remain one of those things that I don't buy until I have a saw that requires a specific file size, and I buy them in quantity only in sizes where I have saws that need to be reconditioned. Regular saw maintenance should be very sparing of files.

[maximillian arango]

So this is a silly question do all brands follow a standard size system that have been posted in the links through out the thread? I am mostly just concern of buying the wrong file and ruining a saw, example, I but a "7" slim taper" file of one brand but the same exact thing "7" slim taper" may be really like a "7" regular taper." Am I worried about nothing? What sizes should I start with I have finished cleaning up a the saws I have bought are very different, logging saw down to a very fine back saw.

Thank you for the responses so far