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Thread: Is a fenced router plane a poor substitution for a plow plane?

  1. #1
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    Is a fenced router plane a poor substitution for a plow plane?

    I was considering purchasing the veritas small plow plane for cutting grooves and dadoes, but man is it expensive. I also need a router plane for other (more general) purposes. I noticed that the veritas large router plane has an optional fence you can buy. Has anyone used it? I'm wondering if I can get away from buying both immediately and just start with the router plane? Or would I just find myself getting frustrated?

  2. #2
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    It will sort of work but I would suggest that you will be frustrated by difficulty and slow progress. A better course of action would be to simply chisel your grooves then use the router plane to bottom them if necessary. It will be significantly faster than trying to cut the whole thing with the router plane.

    That said, plow planes are fundamental to hand tool work. There are workarounds but really they are the best fit for the task.
    Your endgrain is like your bellybutton. Yes, I know you have it. No, I don't want to see it.

  3. #3
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    Hi Jared,

    I'm going to link to a post I wrote last week about this very topic in a build thread I'm doing. Short answer, yes it can be used just fine as a plow, but a dedicated plow is faster and easier.

    Please see post 89 here http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...83#post2195683

    I'm specifically using it for stopped grooves here but the same principles for success when using the router to cut though grooves apply (I now have the small plow and use it for all through grooves...again faster and easier)

    I do agree with Zach that in the long run it is not a substitute for a plow, but (and I'm always the odd man out on this), it can do totally respectable job on grooves until you get a plow.
    Last edited by Chris Griggs; 01-02-2014 at 10:51 AM.
    Woodworking is terrific for keeping in shape, but it's also a deadly serious killing system...

  4. #4
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    In my opinion, even if you put an extension on the router fence to provide better registration, there would still be a tendancy for the cut to wander. On a plough the centre of effort is behind the blade. Not so with a router. I get good results with my Stanley 45 or Record 043 for smaller grooves. I love Veritas tools but the 043 or the Stanley50 are much cheaper and up to the task.

  5. #5
    I would by both planes vintage, my stanley 71 router I paid £10 for and its complete, I also have a stanley 50 and a record 44 both cost about £20 complete all I needed to do in all cases was sharpen the cutters (which I would expect to do if I bought a new plane anyway). If you do want to go new then you can use a router to make groves but its really slow work, I would say they are better for cleaning dado bottoms than cutting a grove, they also tend to tear out across the grain so a good sharp making gauge and knife are a must.

    Good luck

    Matt

  6. #6
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    Yeah, it's not a great solution. That said, you can make it work. It just takes a lot longer. It takes me longer to set up the fence on a plow than it does to rip out a quarter inch groove in the parts for a couple of doors. It probably takes me four times as long with a router plane - besides the somewhat added difficulty in use, you have to keep adjusting the depth.

    If I really needed the router plane for something, than I'd go with that and struggle along with just it. When my cheap Mujingfang plow broke, before I fixed it, I did so and it was fine. It's certainly not an issue if you aren't doing a whole lot of frame and panel work. But I'd rather have the plow, because for a lot of work, a careful chisel work can get you by were a router plane might be used. Depending on what you have for tooling, you could maybe do rabbeted door panels instead of grooved ones, maybe that would be quicker.

    If you're looking for a cheaper solution for a plow, sometimes you can get a good deal on Record 044 or 043 planes. Often you can grab a cheap wooden plow with a 1/4" iron, (which often is all you need) for a song, or half of a match plane set, or a cheap weatherstripping type iron plane. Even if later on you get a nicer plow, sometimes it's nice just to have something set up to go with a quarter-inch iron at all times for quick grooves.
    " Be willing to make mistakes in your basements, garages, apartments and palaces. I have made many. Your first attempts may be poor. They will not be futile. " - M.S. Bickford, Mouldings In Practice

  7. #7
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    In my experience the cheapest plow is a 45 without all the do-dads. If you have access to an MWTCA meet, it is very common for a 45 to be available at $25 or so, as long as you don't need it pristine, and you only need a few blades. I don't think I paid $25 for either of mine. While a 45 has limitations (see other threads on the subject here) it can do a fine job as a plow.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Schwabacher View Post
    In my experience the cheapest plow is a 45 without all the do-dads. If you have access to an MWTCA meet, it is very common for a 45 to be available at $25 or so, as long as you don't need it pristine, and you only need a few blades. I don't think I paid $25 for either of mine. While a 45 has limitations (see other threads on the subject here) it can do a fine job as a plow.
    And if you find a 45 without any blades, in a pinch the Veritas blades will work. Not a lot of life but not a lot of wear/sharpening needed either. Here's response from Cust Service when the plows first came out....

    We have measured the thickness of our blade and it is 1/8” thick which is ever so slightly thicker than a stock Stanley blade. We were fortunate enough to have a Stanley 45 here in our collection so we were able to confirm that our blades will fit in the plane fine. Our Blades are shorter which will means a shorter life expectancy but with a brand new blade in the Stanley 45 you would have approximately 3/8” projection when adjusted to the maximum.

  9. #9
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    Both the router plane and a plow plane are important additions to one's shop.

    Even if later on you get a nicer plow, sometimes it's nice just to have something set up to go with a quarter-inch iron at all times for quick grooves.
    Even with a flock of #45s and a #55 I purchased a #50 just to keep set up for 1/4" plowing.

    Though if one wants stopped grooves the #45 works better for that.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    I purchased a #50 just to keep set up for 1/4" plowing.

    Though if one wants stopped grooves the #45 works better for that.
    I don't have a 45 so could you please explain why it is better than the 50?
    "If you have all your fingers, you can convert to Metric"

  11. #11
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    I've got a LV router plane with fence.

    It's one of the more versatile tools in my shop.
    If you wanted to use it as a plow plane, the two handles would be in constant opposition.

    Your body weight would naturally push the plane in, toward your bench.

    The advantage of the plow plane (in my hack opinion) is that the user's hands are along the line of the groove to be cut.
    It's why motorcycle have one wheel, following the other - rather than offset.

  12. #12
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    You can do it, and I have, but you won't want to use a router plane if you find yourself frequently cutting grooves/dadoes. Very slow and tedious, advancing the blade after each cut.

    I can also tell you that the biggest problem I have with my plow plane is setting the fence to exactly the distance I want. When I tighten the fence, it always snugs just past what I want. On my list of planes to build is a couple of grooving planes with a set distance in 1/4" and 3/8". Everytime I change irons in my plow, the fence is off ever so slightly.....just enough to drive me nutso. It's an 1850's screw arm plow.
    Jeff

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