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Thread: Any stair guys in the audience tonight? Winder info needed.'m

  1. #1
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    Any stair guys in the audience tonight? Winder info needed.'m

    I'm starting to layout a set of stair for my garage/mini barn. 9' ceilings, 15'2" run...I can't see how to do it without winders, I had figured on 3 at the bottom, 30 degrees each turn. I've read they are more comfortable if the winders follow the same tread depth at the walk line as the common treads, but with a 6" inside width and 3 winders, that seems impossible to me. Then I'm reading an interpretation of the code that says all the commons have to be the same within 3/8", all the winders have to be the same as each other at the walk line, but the commons and winders don't have to have the same run. Scratching head to say the least. Is this something that varies locally? Should I be calling the building inspector for a local reading, or is there some standard on this? I've talked to some local stair builders.........boy do their answers vary. Some haven't heard of the 7 3/4" max rise yet. HELP!

  2. #2
    to do a winder with a larger march the privet can't be the newel.

    SM_39_1.png

    http://helpcenter.graphisoft.com/gui...gs-stairmaker/
    Last edited by jack forsberg; 01-02-2014 at 7:11 PM.
    jack
    English machines

  3. #3
    I try to keep them all the same at the walk line, its definitely the most comfortable. That said as long as you`re not too narrow or too wide at the walk line it will be ok. Not ideal but ok. The codes on stairs are getting so strict that you cant do much of anything anymore. It`s almost to the point where only one kind of very narrow rise and run combination is legal...kinda sucks. I`d call the bulding department and check just to be sure, it sucks if you have to change anything.

  4. #4
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    Winders can be troublesome, one alternative is a level landing. Assuming no requirement for a landing at the top of the stairs and 36" clear run at bottom: Floor to floor height 120" and level run 182" with run allowance of 4" at top of stair plus 36" at bottom then framing to nose length allowance of 142" or 138 nose to nose. calc for risers 120 / 7.5 = 16, so 16 risers and 15 treads. Assume a 9.75 cut out for treads so 15 * 9.75 = 146.75, nose to nose length is a little long. So a 7.5 inch rise level landing can be placed at the bottom of the stair.

  5. #5
    Over a certain total rise, I think a landing is required as well. I ended up getting a metal circular staircase for the shop above my garage due to the high garage ceiling and requirement for a landing. The code requirement for circular stairs provides a few options not available otherwise.

  6. #6
    Is this stair coming from shop space? Think I would consider getting a pull down attic stair (ladder).

  7. #7
    Years ago I had a shouting match with a home builder about winders. I showed him the international building code, and he basically laughed me off. The next day, I called the inspector and he laughed me off. I emailed the inspector the code section and a picture of the stairs, and his response was "I'll get back to you in a few minutes".

    Long story short, the following morning, the builder had his guys out there making it right. The point being that the builder and inspector were professionals, with LOTS of experience, but this is a very tricky matter, and the code needs to be looked at very carefully.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Nair View Post
    Winders can be troublesome, one alternative is a level landing. Assuming no requirement for a landing at the top of the stairs and 36" clear run at bottom: Floor to floor height 120" and level run 182" with run allowance of 4" at top of stair plus 36" at bottom then framing to nose length allowance of 142" or 138 nose to nose. calc for risers 120 / 7.5 = 16, so 16 risers and 15 treads. Assume a 9.75 cut out for treads so 15 * 9.75 = 146.75, nose to nose length is a little long. So a 7.5 inch rise level landing can be placed at the bottom of the stair.

    The condition is its going up the back wall of a 16'X24' single car garage. I have about 180" of possible run wall to wall after sheet rock, trim etc. I have to turn essentially 180 degrees, you walk in on the right side, start rising, turn 90, continue rising up the back wall, landing at the top eats up 36", but you need to turn another 90 to get to the "storage loft" as its zoned.........or future home office for wife as I like to think of it. So ships ladder is out....wife is not going to want to climb a ladder, and pull down is out, even worse. I figured better to have the landing at the top, winders at the bottom, if you are going to trip better to fall 3 steps than the whole run. Two flat landings puts you out in the yard.....so that won't work. I do occasionally want to park a car in there, may also be an assembly area for my wood working, never really going to be my main shop.

  9. #9
    Peter,

    I went through a similar "design" problem with my garage with a shop overhead several years ago. My garage ceiling is a little higher, and however I laid it out, the steps with a required landing took up too much space or became too long to be practical. Pre-packaged Circular stairs are much more forgiving regarding zoning requirements, especially on tread width. It may seem a little like overkill, but it worked well for me. Also, to get equipment up and down, I have a trap door, coupled with a chain-fall that has a break-down, dead-man style support.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Quinn View Post
    The condition is its going up the back wall of a 16'X24' single car garage. I have about 180" of possible run wall to wall after sheet rock, trim etc. I have to turn essentially 180 degrees, you walk in on the right side, start rising, turn 90, continue rising up the back wall, landing at the top eats up 36", but you need to turn another 90 to get to the "storage loft" as its zoned.........or future home office for wife as I like to think of it. So ships ladder is out....wife is not going to want to climb a ladder, and pull down is out, even worse. I figured better to have the landing at the top, winders at the bottom, if you are going to trip better to fall 3 steps than the whole run. Two flat landings puts you out in the yard.....so that won't work. I do occasionally want to park a car in there, may also be an assembly area for my wood working, never really going to be my main shop.

  10. #10
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    Without the full picture I ask this serious question - Can you build the stairs outside?

    Otherwise - you make what works and likely go against code within the narrow confines of your available space.
    This is not a primary use stairway right? No reason for guests or visitors to use the approach? Obviously I have no good answers .
    Sam

    ~ Hard to take a guy who looks like this seriously but his 2 is worth all of that ~

  11. #11
    Peter--- I experimented with a couple of stair plans. Assuming 120" overall rise (8"/rise = 15 rises) I think you can do this with two flat landings (pic 1 below) or with winders (pic 2) I used 22.5 deg. winders to make the tread at the "walking line" closer to the standard tread. You lose about 15" of floor space with the winders at the bottom. If you put the winders at the top, you gain the space on the first floor and lose it at the second.

    Stair Plan 2 (1-2-14).pngStair Plan 1 (1-2-14).png

  12. #12
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    Jerry has the correct solution for you. Winders that meet code will no longer fit in the confines of the landing. Note his drawing of the winders will extend into the room further than the width of the stairs. Are you sure you have to meet code to storage area, it is not a living space?
    Richard

    Wooden Railings by Richard & Son

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Wolf View Post
    Jerry has the correct solution for you. Winders that meet code will no longer fit in the confines of the landing. Note his drawing of the winders will extend into the room further than the width of the stairs. Are you sure you have to meet code to storage area, it is not a living space?
    I called the inspector when I first started designing the building, we talked about stairs, I asked that exact question, out building, not living space, do I have some latitude? Answer was no, new construction, all stairs must meet all new codes. I can't go up the outside due to set backs, its a small lot in town location, houses are real close together, and wife won't climb icy stairs to future home office in winter even if I could fit them in. I think they are holding me to 7 3/4" rise maximum... the old ones were almost 10" with an 8" run! Total demo on that building. I do have room to project into the building, my plan was to have two common treads before the winders at the bottom, I think I still make head room by a whisker that way, four winders would be as good or better.

    Jerry, much thanks for your drawings, thats putting me int the right direction. I've made a lot of stair parts at work but never a stair case, never had to think about the geometry.

  14. #14
    Peter, your mention of the two common treads brings up a good point ,one tread is really annoying . Doesn't get mentioned enough ,even in the old books. Even in outside low pitch walkways it's much more comfortable to take two steps to the next slab. You are right about how it's different to be responsible for the geometry ,don't want to end up with one of those Escher stairs...

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack forsberg View Post
    to do a winder with a larger march the privet can't be the newel.

    Wow, if you would have just posted that reply without any context, how many would have any idea of the subject? Very cool.

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