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Thread: Clear Vue Cyclone...

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole Anderson View Post
    "$1,595 is a lot of money for a kit collector that performs at a level below many lower-cost machines."
    $1595 is a lot of money to pay for anything made of plastic and MDF. I've seen more than one report of CV's that were cracked so its NOT unbreakable. What is going to happen to these after in 10-15 years of vibration and humidity?


  2. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Meiser View Post
    $1595 is a lot of money to pay for anything made of plastic and MDF. I've seen more than one report of CV's that were cracked so its NOT unbreakable. What is going to happen to these after in 10-15 years of vibration and humidity?
    The cracks are usually in shipping. Do you want to hear about the DCs I've seen come in with dents from shipping? In fact, my CV came cracked. No big deal. My SawStop came missing pieces for the base and my JJP-12 jointer/planer came with a warped table.

    Considering I've had mine for 5 years and it has no wear and tear on it at all, I expect what's going to happen in 15 years is I'll turn it on and it will work. Others have had theirs longer than me and I haven't heard any complaints from anyone about installed systems. You may not like plastic, but there is no need to wonder about what is going to happen. There are plenty that have been out there for a good long time that have seen no durability issues.

  3. #48
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    I'm not talking shipping damage. I'm talking long-term degradation of the plastic and MDF coupled with vibration and other stresses. History has shown steel to be a reliable material. Plastic...not so much in many cases. It tends to degrade and get brittle. Then what when you accidentally smack it with a a board or suck up a big chunk? MDF's long term prospects when exposed to humidity are even worse and if I'm understanding the pictures I've seen CV uses that to support a 5HP motor spinning a 15" impeller at 3600 RPM. Really its the blower that scared me off the most.
    Last edited by Matt Meiser; 01-07-2014 at 3:30 PM.


  4. #49
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    If all the seams in the entire system are sealed then the *only* dust leakage should occur through the filter media (based on the media specification). The reviewers should have known this and realized that something was wrong.

    When I bought my CV the only other option with the required performance was what is now the Oneida industrial line ($3k+). Everyone seems to focus on the plastic of the CV but I've found it to be extremely durable. My gripe is the MDF... I would have gladly paid an optional upcharge for Phenolic or Appleply. Yes, sealing the entire system is a big PITA and I did have to go back and hit a few missed areas. When there was a $1500+ price differential in systems I was happy to spend the day assembling & tweaking the unit. Now it's a harder decision with cheaper but high performance bolt-together metal options on the market...

  5. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Meiser View Post
    I'm not talking shipping damage. I'm talking long-term degradation of the plastic and MDF coupled with vibration and other stresses. History has shown steel to be a reliable material. Plastic...not so much in many cases. It tends to degrade and get brittle. Then what when you accidentally smack it with a a board or suck up a big chunk? MDF's long term prospects when exposed to humidity are even worse and if I'm understanding the pictures I've seen CV uses that to support a 5HP motor spinning a 15" impeller at 3600 RPM. Really its the blower that scared me off the most.
    FWIW, I suck up chunks routinely. I've also sucked up wrenches, rules and tape measures. Its nit a problem

  6. #51
    When people talk about the quality of the components and assembly, and how for several things didn't come together well at all, isn't that a red flag? If it's not to you, then it definitely should be to Clearvue's support people. From what I've read on their own website, Clearvue is on its second set of owners and in its third location, all in less than 10 years. I find it easy to believe that in all those moves and transitions that things such as quality control have suffered. Maybe some of you got your cyclone years ago when things were starting out. What I'm saying is, don't just assume that everything's hunky dory with these kits just because yours was back when you bought it.

    As for Wood Magazine, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt because reviewing tools is one of the major things they do. I get the questions about them accepting advertising from companies that make tools they review. But I also have to believe that Wood can be sued for intentionally misleading people or favoring one company over another. So that makes me tend to believe their results are at least honest, but I can't speak to the accuracy of their technical findings. But no one here seems to want to believe that Wood has a legal obligation to be right and fair. I can't believe they'd risk their business by fudging the results. If they patched all the holes and leaks they could find, then it sounds like they gave it every chance to get it right. But when I went back and read the review from last year, it said they were measuring dust particles so small you can't see them. So doesn't it stand to reason if they can't see the dust, then they couldn't see the leaks too?

    I don't have a stake in this because I don't own a Clearvue (and wouldn't after this much discrepancy), but I would probably lean more towards a metal cyclone if I could afford one. For now, I just make do with smaller canister filter DC's.

  7. #52
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    Something isn't right in Dustland. Both cyclone and impeller design are mature science. Little has changed for years. Any similar sized system with roughly the same impeller and cyclone configuration will deliver approximately the same results. One impeller might deliver a little more cfm at a certain sp and one cyclone might separate a few % points better if the inlet velocity is appropriate to the cyclone design but huge differences only come from leaks somewhere or filter problems. I had one small screw hole in my plenum and the Dylos went crazy. I had a filter once where the silicone or whatever attaches the pleats to the metal end had a problem and the Dyloes went crazy. I have no clue what went on but testing cyclones should show differences between short cones and long or maybe some filter differences but the differences won't be enough to allow for clear winners or losers. Hobby systems are not individually designed for certain size or shapes of dust or for certain ductwork so by definition they will all be a compromise between manufacturing cost and generic design. Motor quality and sizing the ductwork are probably bigger deals than whose cyclone you use. Dave

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Coloccia View Post
    FWIW, I suck up chunks routinely. I've also sucked up wrenches, rules and tape measures. Its nit a problem
    Glad I'm not the only one. Grizzly remotes are pretty durable, FYI.


  9. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by David Kumm View Post
    I have no clue what went on but testing cyclones should show differences between short cones and long or maybe some filter differences but the differences won't be enough to allow for clear winners or losers.
    That perfectly sums up my feeling, as well.

  10. #55
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    FWIW, I purchased a CV1800 a bit under a year ago and it was easy and simple to assemble. In all I used about a half of a (home-sized) tube of caulk.

    If they were suffering from such leakage, prudent (engineering and journalistic) parctice would be to try to determine the location of the leak. A simple stick of incense, passed around the joints downstream of the fan would provide insight on the source of the leak.

    If it's a leak in the filter its very different topic of discussion, just as it would be if the tide was turned and Oneida shipped a bad filter.

    Perhaps they had a bad unit; perhaps they failed to caulk a seam. If the former there's room for criticism. If the latter.. well.. <g>
    One can never have too many planes and chisels... or so I'm learning!!

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Meiser View Post
    Glad I'm not the only one. Grizzly remotes are pretty durable, FYI.
    Matt, you may have just helped me find my remote, I'm cleaning out the cyclone when I get home...

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Neeley View Post
    FWIW, I purchased a CV1800 a bit under a year ago and it was easy and simple to assemble. In all I used about a half of a (home-sized) tube of caulk.

    If they were suffering from such leakage, prudent (engineering and journalistic) parctice would be to try to determine the location of the leak. A simple stick of incense, passed around the joints downstream of the fan would provide insight on the source of the leak.

    If it's a leak in the filter its very different topic of discussion, just as it would be if the tide was turned and Oneida shipped a bad filter.

    Perhaps they had a bad unit; perhaps they failed to caulk a seam. If the former there's room for criticism. If the latter.. well.. <g>
    Another advantage of a push-through cyclone- easier to find leaks. Reminds me, I sucked up a decent sized piece of 10 ga. steel a few months ago and may have pierced the wall of my cyclone. Time to dig out the old soldering iron.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Schaffter View Post
    Another advantage of a push-through cyclone- easier to find leaks. Reminds me, I sucked up a decent sized piece of 10 ga. steel a few months ago and may have pierced the wall of my cyclone. Time to dig out the old soldering iron.
    Alan,

    You're looking for redirected smoke. It doesn't matter whether it's push (smoke blown away) or vacuum (smoke drawn in).

    Jim
    One can never have too many planes and chisels... or so I'm learning!!

  14. #59
    I just read every post in this thread, and I feel the need to throw my 2 cents out there. FYI I don't even own a cyclone, but I'm probably going to go buy the wood issue just to read it.

    1. not all electric motors are created equal a 5HP Baldor or Lesson motor could cost you anywhere from $200 to $800, depending on it's duty cycle, enclosure type & bearing quality. That's not even getting into like start type and capacitor quality.
    2. surface area of the filter plays a big part in how well a DC works. if memory serves Oneida is 100 sq/feet while CV is 300.
    3. Impeller and the hosing design is important and not a trivial as well. Google impeller efficiency and you will see what I mean.

    One last thing, just because they hired some engineers doesn't mean squat unless they cited what they got their degree in and what level (bs, ms, phd) it was.
    -Dan

  15. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by dan sherman View Post
    One last thing, just because they hired some engineers doesn't mean squat unless they cited what they got their degree in and what level (bs, ms, phd) it was.
    Still proof of nothing.

    More worthwhile would be if they had significant experience in the industry.

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