Why loose tools in a tool box? Why even a tool box?

[Chris Griggs]

I certainly think that's fair. I am just getting to the point where I can tell if the proportions of something are pleasing, though (size of mouldings, orientation, etc). What I mean by pleasing is that there isn't something I will find wrong with them later when I have better taste.

Finding good architecture can be a challenge, depending on where you live, but a lot of the more tasteful trim and mouldings in houses pre-machine era seems to have a lot of design thought in it. The tops of the older buildings around here are certainly interesting, and even when they involve a lot of detail, are usually well proportioned.

I don't know much about chairs, though, I'll admit.

Looking at mouldings in older houses, and trim, etc, is a good place to sharpen yourself mentally and think about whether or not something looks good, and then try to examine why it does or doesn't.

My new favorite place to look for design learning and inspiration is the P4A Antiques database. Zach talked me into joining SAPFM and which gets you access to it and that alone is worth the price of admission. Thousands of historical examples of furniture and other stuff...with PICTURES. I've literally been on there everyday for that last week just looking at pictures. Its a way better education than any blog I've ever read. I'm also within walking distance from the Philly museum of art which is a phenomenal educational experience as well.

[Edward Mitton]

This thread is very interesting, and timely for my situation. I have recently been given the green light by the LOML to set up a woodworking shop in the partially unfinished basement. (The basement finishing itself is also a DIY project with its own story...) Currently my tool storage is based on a few under-bench drawers, a headboard / shelf unit from our old waterbed, old traditional carpenter's style tool totes sitting in a row on the floor next to the wall, and stuff hung from nails on nearby open wall studs.

The beauty of this is that I have the ability to start afresh with a tool storage layout scheme that will work best for me.
The way I am going about this is by placing only the tools I use most frequently on the top shelf of the headboard unit, or hung on the wall studs directly above it.
I already have all of the tools I always use out in the open and easy to reach.. It's just a matter of grab -em' and go.
Perfect for un-interrupted work-flow.
This set of tools will comprise the 'kit' that will go in a wall-hung tool cabinet and various saw / plane / hand drill tills. These are still in the process of being built.
Lesser used tools will then occupy the under bench drawers and tool totes.
I also keep a utility tool box full of mostly mechanic tools that I can haul around the house for various fix-it projects. Since a lot of these tools are useful near the woodworking bench, it resides nearby. In addition is a small toolbox housing all tools electrical.

[Brian Holcombe]

That's sort of what I've been driving at, wether or not we're talking about classical proportions or classical designs. The former seems a topic that is always capable of revealing a new facet. Many Modernist architects have achieved their best work through intense study of classical proportions.

I wouldn't discard machine age buildings however, you just have to look at the right ones. They also have some insight to reveal. I recently found out that Le Corbusier teamed up with a cabinetmaker who had earned rank as an MOF at one point in his career.

Also I think part of being a hobbyist is understanding that your work will be a never ending progression and finished projects are a glimpse into your ability at the point of completion. That being said I appreciate your perspective, I feel the same way when it comes to delving into new areas of woodworking. I always feel I need to study the subject intensely before building anything that I will have to look at for any length of time.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

. . . As some have mentioned the large chest on a floor might be great for young people with strong backs. For those of us who rub our backs after tying our shoes it might not be such a great idea. . . .

I'm still younger than a lot of folks here, but I have a fair amount of back pain. At work, there's a lot of getting things from just-above-floor level depending on what tools I'm running (I'm a line-worker at a semi-conductor fab) nothing more than probably 10 pounds of weight, but the up-and-down can be tough depending on how I'm feeling. One thing I was taught by an older fellow who has some back pain, was that if you brace one hand against something, and then sort of raise one leg as you bend over (yes, you look a bit like a silly ballerina), you move most of the actual bending to your hips; your back doesn't have to bend at all. It helps me a lot on days things are hurting, and it wasn't quite intuitive at first.

I'm not trying to push anyone towards a tool storage method here, just throwing it out there, because it hadn't quite occurred to me.

Me, I store my tools in a wall cabinet because the small area I carved out for a "shop", making a wall space was easier than making floor space. I think a small chest might have been nice though, because my tool cabinet is a little farther from the bench than would be ideal, and if I put it closer, I would have to be working around it because it juts out from the wall quite a bit. If I had a bench with more overhang, I would have been tempted to go with the floor chest, because I could roll it under the overhang when not in use, and not really "lose" space, and use the walls for something else. (right now i'm wishing I had a little more useable wall space for storing other things.)

At my old house, we had a fairly shallow closet in an odd space in the house - given how dry that house was (my wife came with plants and a giant turtle tank, so things are humid here, which led to my first trials with rust) it made awesome tool storage, using the shelves in there combined with pegs on rails along the little bit of showing wall and pegboard over most of the back of the closet door. It was nice enough that if I end up in another situation where it's feasible, even if I need to throw a little heater in there and seal it better, I'll build a similar shallow closet for my next place.

[David Weaver]

Also I think part of being a hobbyist is understanding that your work will be a never ending progression and finished projects are a glimpse into your ability at the point of completion. That being said I appreciate your perspective, I feel the same way when it comes to delving into new areas of woodworking. I always feel I need to study the subject intensely before building anything that I will have to look at for any length of time.

I agree. I don't want to suggest that nobody should make anything until they are perfect in design. I just think even beginners should do a very thorough job of starting to look around at the design of things, and thinking about why things look good and why they don't. The worst thing to me, is to make something with poor design (i can live with suboptimal execution) and then have someone point an element out and I look at it and feel like it was trivial and obvious and I should've noticed.

IF someone points out that I have a gap in a moulding at a corner, I can live with that, it only bothers me if the gap is there and it's part of executing at the time of the build, but even then, it's not that big of a deal to me if it's not an easy fix.

The guy who taught me to woodwork at first was so over the top into execution and none on design that I started out really skewed. I got into hand tools totally by myself, because they seemed more stimulating than the JDS multirouter, and took a lot of heat at the time for it. I think he has stopped woodworking.

So, anyway, execution gets better by repetition but design sense has to be learned and takes more thought, to me. More emphasis should be on it from the beginning - in my opinion.

It really helps you appreciate how some of the architectural elements in older houses are put together - how big they are, how they're oriented, etc and what makes them attractive.

[Mel Fulks]

David, woodworking has been mentioned by at least one other philosopher .Marcus Aurelius : is the cucumber bitter? Cast it aside! Are there thorns on the path ? Go another way! Do not ask why such things exist, you might as well ask a carpenter why his shop floor is covered with shavings.... He goes on to say that nature has niether dump or supply house
and makes every thing out of old stuff.

[Brian Ashton]

If you live in the frozen North then storing your tools may not be as crucial. I can remember leaving planes out for days in my old shop in Canada. But living anywhere where there is reasonable humidity and they will rust. I've seen rust form on my tools after a day, it reacts very quickly with your sweat (because your sweating in the heat and humidity) and leaves nice hand prints on all your tools. So for me hanging them on a wall is out of the question. Everything is behind doors or drawer fronts of some fashion, except the lathe and bandsaw - for obvious reasons. But they do get covered up with old sheets...

I love the stainless tools that Lee Valley was playing with a couple years back.

[David Weaver]

David, woodworking has been mentioned by at least one other philosopher .Marcus Aurelius : is the cucumber bitter? Cast it aside! Are there thorns on the path ? Go another way! Do not ask why such things exist, you might as well ask a carpenter why his shop floor is covered with shavings.... He goes on to say that nature has niether dump or supply house
and makes every thing out of old stuff.

That must be the Marcus who was Georges apprentice!

[John Coloccia]

Personally, I think you should just start building whatever it is you want to build, and let the storage systems develop organically as you figure out what you need. I think we've all probably spent too much time organizing and storing, and not enough time making progress on our project...at one time or another, at least. Generally speaking, the "working" shops are always in some state of disarray because no storage system actually works all well all the time

[Maurice Ungaro]

Personally, I think you should just start building whatever it is you want to build, and let the storage systems develop organically as you figure out what you need. I think we've all probably spent too much time organizing and storing, and not enough time making progress on our project...at one time or another, at least. Generally speaking, the "working" shops are always in some state of disarray because no storage system actually works all well all the time

Wow…John hit that one on the head!

[M Manlove]

Whatever works! In 50 plus years of doing this thing with wood I have used 60 or more ideas. Your needs can change as your work type changes. Age has made a difference to me. I like drawers. One tool deep drawers. Viet Nam left me a little broken years ago. It didn't bother me for 40 years. Now I occasionally shake like a dog passing a peach pit. I don't want to move one thing to get to another. My walls are full. My workbench has tools laying around on it. I'm happy!!!!!!!!! My wife says I should clean up everything every day. I told her I didn't want her to like it in my shop. I cannot imagine a place for everything and everything in it's place. I couldn't buy a new tool without remodeling. I would never subscribe to that!!!
(she really is welcome there, just kidding)

[Jim Matthews]

I'm always surprised at the effort people put into shop fixtures.

I'm happy with a cheap dresser reconstituted as a tool storage unit.
Wooden drawers seem to treat my cast iron tools better than a roll around metal storage chest.

My memory must be failing, because I can only remember the tools displayed in the open.

It also keeps me from hoarding. It's a real problem - lots of cheap tools that need fix'n.
Better to have fewer that work without any ministrations.

[Chris Fournier]

I'm not sure that I understand Derek's first post all that well. First Derek uses the term "box", then at the end of the post he asks if "cabinets" are just fashion.

If I answered Derek's post as it was presented I'd say that a tool box or "chest" is a period piece and doesn't really have a practical place in 2014. Studley's super famous tool chest still makes me ache for retirement and the time to imitate - gorgeous and I'll never do it. Of course all of those tools filling it were a bit attractive too. I'd look better standing beside a super model if you know what I mean.

Are cabinets fashion? I don't really know how to answer this either but I would say that cabinets have been storing items effectively for long enough to move past the fashion/fad phase.

So what? What's right? What would Jesus say? Seems to be the tone of this thread.

What works for you? No I didn't ask what are you getting by with or what is your current interim set up or what do you think will work for you once you build it, I asked what works for you - works for you.

I have to agree with Sean and his observations although I am not terribly interested in the writings of Chris Schwartz. In no way does this reflect poorly on CS or his loyal readers, he simply came too late in my woodworking career to present anything new. David Pye is another story! Every craftsman should read his work, it won't make you a better woodworker but it may help you understand why you do it.

I am attaching some photos that I have posted before. I am attaching them to back up my verbage. I store some tools on the wall in front of my bench, these tools are either often reached for or too awkward for storing in a cabinet - saws, measuring tools etc. Many tools are stored in "fashionable" cabinets at my bench. They are small, valuable and in my opinion best stored in cabinets, one of these cabinets makes my bench very heavy - also good.

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Sorry I don't currently have an image of the wall in front of my bench. Be sure that there are no handplanes on the wall - too risky to my way of thinking, gravity never sleeps.

Functional is always fashionable even in the world of working wood with handtools so lets let that go. To that end site work invloves tools in soft bags in tool wraps etc., not very sexy.

For Derek, David and Chris I will include one more photo, hand cut dovetails in my bench. They were appropriate for the piece and very helpful selling my skills to clients, sort of a big business card if you will. In the end hand cut dovetails were involved in maybe 10% of my commissioned work but they caught the clients eye and then client focused design sold the work.

IMG_00000597.jpg

And this is what being a professional is about - selling work. Professional is not about being at the pinnacle of the craft, it's about making money in the craft. A stroll through the much maligned back issues of FWW'g will show you what amateurs are capable of - quite simply some of the finest woodwork ever done. Remove the profit motive and replace it with passion and fine craft will be found.

There, I think that I have managed to touch on 4 pages of posts about boxes, cabinets or whatever!

[Chris Griggs]

Your bench is what I want for my next bench Chris! I really want some under bench storage and the Fortune-Nelson really appeals too me...despite (and possible because) its totally different from what I have and what I'm used too.

P.S. There are too many damn Chris's being referenced in this thread and really this forum. Chris Me, Chris F, Chris Schwarz, Chris V is probably lurking around here somewhere, and I think there are others too. The rest of you guys all need to change your names! Alternatively, you may all simply refer to me as "The Griggs"

[Tim Null]

I have read this thread with much interest. I read Derk's posts and usually agree with most of what he writes. I also read CS and like a lot of what he writes as well. Tool storage really is what works for you. I am now in a 1300 sq ft shop in an industrial complex. Next to me are are guys who run businesses to make a living. When I moved in, they kept asking me what I was selling and where my employees were. Still get that when I have wood delivered...lol.

The idea for a chest seems to be to have all of your tools within arms reach. I don't. I have a lot of space. Three workbenches (on a Roubo and I like it) and a off feed table behind my table saw that gets used quite a bit as an assembly surface. My tools are in a stacking cabinet with drawers. Large on the bottom for planes, small on the top for measuring items. IN between holds drills, chisels, rasps, screws, etc. Top is a small work surface. Behind and attached is a surface that holds screwdrivers, mallets, large rulers, squares, and other measuring items. Attached is a saw rack. To the left is a wall mounted rack for braces, and other various items. It is near two benches but on the other side of the shop from the table saw and bandsaw. My point is that I don't mind walking a few steps to get tools. I am a hobbyist, not a professional. I don't have to be efficient. The more steps I take, the less time on my spin bike...lol. At my age, I need to burn as many calories as possible. My clamps are on a mobile rack, but I never wheel it to the work. It stays at the end of my shop and I walk the few steps to get them. Many would say my shop is inefficient. If you were paying me to build, then yes. I like having the space and being able to move around. If I must take a few extra steps to get to my tools, so be it. The extra calories I burn are like a free pass to dessert after dinner....after the obligatory 45 minutes on that spin bike...

So a chest seems cool, but having to sift through layers of tools, or shift sliding trays to get to your tools is not my cup of tea. My drawers are set up so each tool has its place. Not rally custom dividers, but room for each without touching. Use the tool, put it back in it's spot, eventually...

If I was strapped for space, then a chest might be the ticket. Lots of tools in a small footprint. Or if I had to pack up and go, or if others came into my shop and I needed to protect my tools from walking away. But my shop is my shop. Don't feel like cleaning up tonight, lock the door and go home. I usually do this during a project and clean up after to start fresh for the next project.

Love the comments from so many different perspectives. No right answer, just lots of different ways to get things done. I love the fact that I can come here and get a fresh perspective on woodworking. I will read about a technique or process that I may not have thought about before. Thanks guys.