Playing with planes

[Kees Heiden]

More fun stuff with Paul Sellers. Planing without downward pressure.

http://paulsellers.com/2014/01/bench...lanes-planing/

This is a well known phenomen. The shaving exerts a downwards force on the edge, until the wearbevel on the backside grows so large that you end up without clearance and the force on the edge inverts. So you can plane with very little downwards force, as long as your blade is sharp. Of course, with a very fluffy shaving this doesn't really work.

Probably also one of the reasons why very light planes like beech smoothers work so well.

[Hilton Ralphs]

Hands free woodworking!

I think a bunch of you-know-who fanboys are going to be very upset.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

I always try and sharpen long before I get to the point where I need to push down on a plane to get a shaving. A little at the start of a cut to keep things engaged, that's it. My bench isn't low because I feel a need to push down heavily. It's low because I have to surface all my wood by hand, and my previous work surfaces showed me that if I have to spend a fair length of time pushing planes, doing with my arms raised up at some weird angle gets achey, and a lower bench lets me use my leg and core muscles to do the movement rather than pushing with arms or arms and back. I'm still not pushing down, though! If I get to a point in life where I can prep all my work by machine and just smooth plane things as needed, I'll be raising my primary bench some. (Actually, I think mine is still a little too low, so I'll be raising it a hair as is!)

[Kees Heiden]

My bench is also pretty low, and I have no back problems.

[Jessica Pierce-LaRose]

Just watched the video - he says some folks were recommending as low as 28 inches! Unless you're very short, that's ridiculously low for a traditional western plane! I did something similar in height as I was building my bench, just the bench top on saw horses while things got built. That low would get old fast. He says his is 38 inches, though - that's higher than my kitchen cabinets; that would get kind of achey for me even with sawing and chisel work sometimes, and certainly for planing of any length. But Paul looks taller than I do.

I think pointing out that you don't need much if any downward pressure on a plane is a good thing though - I probably did it too much when I started and didn't really know what sharp was, and even with sharp tools, I've seen folks just starting put way too much downward pressure the plane- which just makes it a lot harder to move forward!

I think the big thing with height, is that no one can really tell you what's going to best for you, and a lot of the times you aren't going to realize what's best until you've got some working under your belt. A lot changes with height difference, how you hold your tools and what tools you have, and what tasks you do most.

[Paul Saffold]

Very interesting. I'll confess to being a white knuckle planer. I'll have to give it a try. Certainly looks more controllable not fighting the downforce.

[Jussi Auvinen]

I think its a completely different situation when you're trying to flatten a rough boards face.
Applying the right pressure is much easier (atleast for me) when i'm abit more 'on top of the work', for rough work.

On light edge jointing like that height isnt much of an issue.

[Metod Alif]

A couple of years ago, Ron Brese, http://www.breseplane.com/ had a similar video for one of his (drool causing ) planes. And he is not even on the other side of the Pond...
Best wishes,
Metod

[Kees Heiden]

Other reason for pressure on the plane: start a stroke with pressure on the toe, end with pressure on the heel. That's basic planing stuff.

[steven c newman]

Actually relied over at that site of Paul's. All the benches I have built over the years used one basic height, that of my belt buckle. Not AFTER I pull me knickers back up, mind you. Just the normal height of the bellt buckle. For you suspender types, it would be about the height of the top bottom of yer Levis. My main drawback in this hand plane thing is wind. With this COPD, I get winded quickly. Includes handsawing work as well.

Will have to try just pushing along, although I do press down at the start with the knob. Wonder if this will work with a cambered Jack plane??

[Chuck Nickerson]

As evidence the video is quite lacking.

1.It only addresses smoothing. That's not where I spend most of my planing time.

2. Look how slowly he pulls it to keep the plane engaged.

3. How well does this work with walnut, cherry or maple?

If you want a higher bench, make a higher bench; I've raised my Roubo three inches.

I think Paul's bringing a knife to a gunfight here.

(Now let's see whose fanboys get upset.)

[Curtis Niedermier]

First off, I like a bench of about 33 to 34 inches, and I'm 5-11. That's probably a short bench to some people.

Thing is, I don't really base bench height off pressure applied when planing. It's about balancing comfortable working height with eyesight. Maybe you don't have the same experience, but the only time I ever get a sore back is if I have to stoop to see what I'm doing - usually layout work and chopping dovetail waste. I thought about raising my bench so I can see the work better, but I like being "above" my chisels and saws when I work. I feel like it gives me the best arm angles to work.

I overcame the sore back with simple things that don't require me to sacrifice my preferred bench height. I added a bench light, which helped tremendously. I can see my lines without bending my back. I pencil in my knife lines, which helps too. And sometimes, if I have a lot of tedious work to do, I sit on my tool chest or saw bench (I'm starting a shop stool this weekend for this very reason). Also, as I gain more experience, I've found that I don't have to have my eyes as up close and personal with the work as I used to. I can keep my back straight and see and feel if my chisel is at 90 degrees, and I can feel for the knife line with my chisel. I can let my saw cut straight down with out looking in close to make sure I'm on my line.

I've never understood why plane pressure was the driving factor in the bench height debate. I really think it's the distance of the eyes from the work. Just my two cents.


EDIT:::: So I don't know what I was smoking when I wrote this, but I measured my workbench at home during lunch, and it's actually 36 inches. My world is a mess! I guess I'm right in the middle of the bench height range, which means I'm nothing more than average as usual.

[Jim Koepke]

Was this done with a plane blade only sharpened using a 250 grit stone?

Paul Sellers says:

With the lightest of all practical bench planes, the #4

The fanboys of a #3 are upset at that remark.

Starting a cut is done by setting the toe of a plane on the work and applying just enough force to register it to the work. As the full length of the plane contacts the surface being worked any downward force moves to the rear of the plane to keep it registered as the toe moves off the end. When this is done properly the worker ends up with a straight surface and not a banana.

jtk

[Steve Voigt]

Richard Maguire, who knows a thing or two about benches, has a nice rejoinder to Sellers here.

[Hilton Ralphs]

As per usual on internet forums, everything is taken out of context and lots of handbags are thrown around. Bottom line though, you are always going to get opposing views, especially when the blogger is well known. Just look at the reaction when Derek Cohen posts a review, I'm pretty sure he receives a few death threats in the mail.