Sand Blasting

[John Bion]

Hi All,
I’m not sure this is the best place for this post but since many of you use sandblasters for glass...: I have looked at sandblasters and in particular the Rayzist systems. Does anyone have any comments about these or any recommendations. I can of course purchase less fancy but much cheaper equipment - but still require a masking system - possibly cutting the masks on my lasers?
Thanks and regards, John

[Ross Moshinsky]

I'm hardly an expert on sandblasting but this is my experience.

1. The actual blast unit is least important part of the whole process. There are absolutely benefits to nicer units, but the reality is, it's just a box to contain the media.
2. The most important part of the process is the printer. It doesn't cost a lot ($300-400) but if you can't print black, you're never going to get good results.
3. Shop ebay/craigslist for light boxes. I built mine. It works fine. There are professional, used ones available for very good prices if you shop around. A lot of different industries use light boxes.
4. You need a compressor that can flow some air. 60-80 gallon compressor is what you'll want if you don't want it to cycle all the time.
5. I've only used Ikonic masking but I believe Rayzist you need to wash the mask which is an extra step you may not want to do.
6. The absolute most difficult part of sandblasting is placing the mask. Don't let the guys at the trade show tell you otherwise. It takes practice and skill to properly place the masking so that it's straight, in the right location, and doesn't have a million bubbles.

[Mike Null]

Sand blasting is a more expensive process than engraving--in my opinion at least double or more. It is also a dirty process and that's where good quality equipment will pay big benefits. If you can handle the extra cost of Rayzist, Ikonic or Glastar then that's what I'd recommend. I've had both and now use a Harbor Freight set up. I do very little blasting or I'd switch back to the good stuff.

[Joe Hillmann]

If you want to cut the mask on the laser Johnson Plastics has a PVC free mask they sell that is supposed to work for that. http://www.johnsonplastics.biz/detai...1/1/LASTAPE625

I haven't used their material but I do use a vinyl material that I stick to the part, engrave in the laser than sand blast. (disclaimer: using vinyl like I do is dangerous for you health and machine. the material johnson plastics sells is vinyl free and is safer)

If you are just doing small items like drinking glasses you can get by with a smaller compressor. In the past I have used a pancake style compressor and it worked for small items but wouldn't have worked for doing pains of glass.

A pressure pot sandblaster uses less compressed air than siphon type and works better if you want to carve the glass rather than just blast it.

I have had several homemade cabinets over they years. My current one is about 4 feet wide, two feet tall and 18 inches deep. If I have do do larger items I do them outside. Ventilation in the cabinet makes a big difference. Something as small as a shopvac will help. Right now I have an 800 cfm blower that is vented outside on my cabinet. It makes it nearly dust free.

[John Bion]

Ross and Mike,

Thank you for your replies and advice.
Ross: I assume then that a laser printer would be preferable to an inkjet - both on ‘blackness' as well as running costs? You are right that the salesmen make it look easy!
Mike: Thank you for correctly placing my post. When you recommend engraving over sandblasting, do you mean using a laser or another alternative - if so, what?
I have looked at England’s alternative to Harbour Freight but it was the dust and grit cleaning that pushed me back to a more expensive unit.

I appreciate your help.
Kind Regards,
John

[John Bion]

Joe, Thank you of your reply.
You almost tempt me to build my own cabinet due to the size of yours - our English weather is often not conducive to outside work - either wet and windy, very wet and very windy or soon to be wet and windy (the only thing we love about our weather is to talk about it!). How do you go about cleaning/recovering your abrasive medium? Do you have a vented window - if so, does this simply use vents that the extraction pulls air in through (and thereby cleaning the viewing pane in the process) or do you have a small blower?
I have a reasonably decent compressor.
Thanks for any advice,
Kind Regards, John

[Gary Gardner]

John

I have A Rayzist cabinet and I love it. The reason I bought it as opposed to a harbor freight box is how clean it operates. Silicosis will kill you or make you wish you were dead. I like to breath. The dust collector is also a seperator for the sand and waste. You have a bag underneath to clean out the waste. I can open the door with the machine running and get absolutely no sand outside the cabinet. It is also very easy to use.

As far as the rezist, I use vinyl (cut on my cutter), sandblast rezist (also cut on my cutter) and photo rezist that is the washout type. I use a black only laser printer so it prints very black. The non wash type from Iconiks uses a a negative image so you use a lot of black ink or toner. The washout type uses a positive so only the image lines you want to blast get printed and you use less ink or toner.

I bought my sandblaster at the NBM show and got the show special which included the lightbox, photo rezist, washout setup and all supplies to get started.

I hope this helps

Gary

[John Bion]

Gary, Thanks for your reply.
You speak of your ‘cutter’, is this a vinyl cutter/plotter or something else? Sorry, I am very green on this and probably ask what seem simple questions!
The three Rezist’s you speak of, are they all from Rayzist?
Thanks and Kind Regards,
John

[Mike Null]

John

I was only trying to make the point that sand blasting/carving should be priced higher than laser engraving by a minimum of double. My real point, better stated by Gary, was that the pro units are many times cleaner and thus worth the price difference. Dust collection is a big deal.

[Joe Hillmann]

Joe, Thank you of your reply.
You almost tempt me to build my own cabinet due to the size of yours - our English weather is often not conducive to outside work - either wet and windy, very wet and very windy or soon to be wet and windy (the only thing we love about our weather is to talk about it!). How do you go about cleaning/recovering your abrasive medium? Do you have a vented window - if so, does this simply use vents that the extraction pulls air in through (and thereby cleaning the viewing pane in the process) or do you have a small blower?
I have a reasonably decent compressor.
Thanks for any advice,
Kind Regards, John

If you build your own I would suggest 18 inches from the front to back to be the very minimum. When I do large panes of glass it gets a bit crowded.

For recovering the "sand" I replaced the hopper that came with my siphon sandblaster set up with a 2 gallon bucket that I connected the sand hose to the side near the bottom. On top of the bucket I have a piece of window screen held on with a large rubberband covering the opening. I simply use a dust pan to scoop up the used sand off the bottom and onto the screen and and it falls into the bucket and gets used again. I do this with the cabinet closed and the exhaust blower on. Having the bucket inside of the booth means very little sand gets out of the cabinet, It also means the whole set up takes up less shop space. If I am working on a piece that takes up more room I take the bucket out of the cabinet and set it on the floor.

I just have a piece of glass for the window in the lid. The lid lifts off as the door. There is no seal around the lid just a fairly tight wood on wood fit. When I turn the exhaust on a very little bit of air leaks through the lid joint but most of it comes in through the air holes. I am moving so much air through the cabinet that I don't have an issue with the blast media sticking to the glass like I have had with other cabinets. Although every so often I have to wipe down the inside of the glass(like every few weeks)

To further reduce dust outside of the cabinet I run a shopvac hose through one of the arm holes and I vacuum off the part before I take it out of the cabinet.

I also have a spray booth built into the same cabinet under the sandblasting area. The floor of the sandblasting booth is the top of the spray booth. When I use the spraybooth I just disconnect the exhaust hose from the sandblasting booth and move it to the outlet of the spray booth. It is kind of awkward to use but saves a lot of space in the shop.

[Gary Gardner]

John

The vinyl rezist is regular sign vinyl cut on my vinyl cutter/plotter, the sandblast rezist is a rubber mask from sign suppliers also cut on my vinyl cutter/plotter and the photo rezist is from Rayzist but is available other suppliers. I hope this helps.

Gary

[Ross Moshinsky]

Ross and Mike,

Thank you for your replies and advice.
Ross: I assume then that a laser printer would be preferable to an inkjet - both on ‘blackness' as well as running costs? You are right that the salesmen make it look easy!
Mike: Thank you for correctly placing my post. When you recommend engraving over sandblasting, do you mean using a laser or another alternative - if so, what?
I have looked at England’s alternative to Harbour Freight but it was the dust and grit cleaning that pushed me back to a more expensive unit.

I appreciate your help.
Kind Regards,
John

Inkjet is far superior to a laser when producing true blacks. The Epson Artisan 1430 is the model recommended by almost everyone. I use the Ikonic system which has the image inverted so you have to produce large spaces of black. Lasers simply don't produce the density from my experience. I've tried 4-5 different laser printers. I've tried the special sprays. None of them worked.

The $300-400 you spend on the printer is FAR more important than whatever you spend on the cabinet in my opinion. You can't start without a good print out. It's truly the foundation of what you're doing. Getting a good mask and laying it down is 90% of the job. Blasting is by far the easiest part of the job. Now if you're doing complicated, multilayer blasting, that changes but "normal" blasting is easy. That's why they have the units at the trade shows that anyone can do. Notice how they don't print out masks on the show floor and the sales rep normally places the masks.

[John Bion]

Thanks to all who have given advice here, I really do appreciate your taking time to do so.
Kind Regards,
John