Still shopping around for a dust collector and still confused. I have found 2 collector's kufo seco 3hp with 2750 cfm and a powermatic that is the same size but only has 1754 cfm and cost about double. Could someone shed some light on this for me.
[OP]
Member
Still shopping around for a dust collector and still confused. I have found 2 collector's kufo seco 3hp with 2750 cfm and a powermatic that is the same size but only has 1754 cfm and cost about double. Could someone shed some light on this for me.
Member
The cyclones are probaby the same unit, sold by different companies, and the numbers are made up by the sales people. They may have different filters. I looked at cyclone dust collectors on ebay, found several of the same, looked like Grizzly and ShopFox were the least expensive. And the Shop Fox has 2 filters. Have you looked at the cyclones built by Oneida and Clearview? You could use the search on cyclones on this forum, it will turn up lots of threads, also search Bill Pentz on Google, he has loads of info on his website. Ideally, you would get a cyclone with a 16" impeller for maximum cfm's, especially if you have a widebelt sander, or drum sander. Sanders are the hardest to collect from. A lot depends on your machines, some collect the dust well, some not so good.
Member
Are both units using 30 micron bags. You should look for one with a 1 micron bag
Member
A big second on looking at Oneida or Clear View. I have the Oneida and it is a commercial grade machine. Clear View has a good reputation as well. Some manufacturers 'inflate' their specs. I believe most of the modern filters (pleated paper is way better than cloth) go down to 1 micron, or even 0.5 micron. Size depends on your shop. I have a 24 by 36 shop. Oneida told me I could get away with a 2 hp model, and it would be kind of minimal as my longest run would be about 35 feet. With a 3 hp machine, I can run 2 machines at once.
robo hippy
Member
Also in favor of clearvue and oneida cyclones. Both made in USA with u.s. made motors.
Make sure to check ceiling height before deciding on anything.
Member
I have the 2 1/2 HP Oneida dust Gorilla and would highly recommend it to anyone wanting a cyclone type collector. The only complaint is that it has sucked up one small HF I was working on and a couple pot style turkey calls and dozens of pieces of sandpaper and steel wool. Saying that it really sucks in this case is a compliment. I have the unit set up in a back room to my shop so the noise is not bad either.
Jack
Contributor
The single-stage collectors [collection bags below, filters or filter bags above] are notorious for inflated CFM ratings, in my opinion.
Those measurements can be accurate, but it all depends on where in the system and under what conditions they were taken.
The same can be true of the 2-stage / cyclone designs, but they have always seemed to me to be a bit more realistic.
As an interesting example - 3 months ago, as part of an equipment upgrade, I needed to have the dust collection system in one of our plants completely overhauled [except the fan itself - but changed pulleys and motor HP] to the tune of about $90K. The design/fabricate/install company guy stopped by this week to monitor performance. Designed to pull 4,500 CFM at each individual drop [there are a few dozen]; he measured it at an avg of about 5,100. All good.
175 HP, 24" main. Blower to farthest drop [6"] is about 275 feet of pipe. And still - measurements of a lousy 5,100 CFM.
CFM ratings can be slippery critters, is all I'm saying.
When I started woodworking, I didn't know squat. I have progressed in 30 years - now I do know squat.
Member
Another recommendation to Google Bill Pentz and look at his website. He has done a TON of research and has what appear to be unbiased recommendations and debunking of a lot of misleading claims.
Contributor
Buy a Dylos DC1100 dust monitor to monitor the air in your shop. Best $200 investment you will ever make for helping you decide when your dust collector and air cleaner are doing their respective jobs.
Member
I had a 2hp KUFO about 5 years ago and it was a good machine. When I sold it I got almost nothing for it (which I guess was okay, because I bought it used for almost nothing) because no one had ever heard of it. You pay more for the Powermatic for the name.
Member
Ditto! Buy the Dylos before you spend $ on dust collection that doesn't work!
When looking at specs, for a hobby shop you really need to find a machine that will pull 800-1000 cfm at about 8" of suction depending on your duct/hose setup, so you need to look at fan curves. Not so easy unless you find someone that has tested several machines with the same setup. Wood magazine recently did several machines, plenty of info if you do a search on this sub-forum.
NOW you tell me...
Jack, would you be willing to talk on or off line about dust collection? I have run into dead end and little help coming forth on blogs. Emial is jack.toymaker@gmial.com
PaPa Jack
At the risk of stirring up the mustard camp I will agree that Powermatic is very proud of their stuff when it comes to priding it. From the horsepower to CFM ratio you are quoting I assume these are bag units. I would trade my cyclone in on a bagger in heartbeat IF the exhaust were not coming back into my shop. for a given HP and impeller a bag unit will move much more air due to the hit the cyclone separator puts on the air stream.Originally Posted by Wade Lippman
I have a bag unit that I put a properly sized aftermarket top bag onto (cost nearly what the unit did) and it does good service for my jointer only. The bag returns too much fine spoil to the air for use on machines that make a lot of dust (from my experience). I still have to turn the bag inside out and vacuum it a couple times a year to keep the airflow decent.
If you have a lean-to or can vent outside, I'd consider a bagger. Otherwise you will just become one more woodworker who is looking for yet another bolt-on to make his bagger compatible with his shop. Search the forums, they are full of threads on add-on filters, separators, enclosures, etc. that people (I was one of them) throw at bag units to make them livable ;-)
Having said all that; do not scrimp on your health, you are doing the right thing by looking for a good DC. My cost for going cheap at the onset is daily medication. I'm not trying to scare anyone, just letting them benefit from my mistakes ;-)
"A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".
– Samuel Butler
Contributor
Sure Dean, the specifications are probably false.
I tested a couple of single stage collectors and found that they delivered less than half of their claimed airflow with nothing connected to them.
You need a system curve from the manufacturer which includes the filters, so that you can then decide if it matches your shop requirements.
You start by doing a shop layout, including the airflow requirements of your machines. Once you have that, the static pressure and flow required from the collector can be calculated taking into account your pipe lengths, diameters, elbows etc.
Once the requirements have been calculated you look at the system curves for the dust collector and determine if it can be used.
As another poster indicated, somewhere around 800 CFM is often what you need for a hobby shop.
The tablesaw is often the largest user, around 500 to 600 CFM for under blade and 200 to 300 CFM for over blade dust collection results in about 800 CFM for the saw.
Regards, Rod.
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