Pricing Jobs

[William Milligan]

First off, I don't do this full time and so don't rely on the laser to support me. At some point in the future I will move on to that point but at THIS point my day job keeps me plenty busy. In some ways this has been good as it has given me a couple of years to develop my skills. A difficult thing for me has been to figure out how much to charge. I have heard many ideas on this. I've heard some just charge about $2 per minute of burn time, some $1....I've used this as a general rule...usually charging somewhere between $1 and $2 per minute. I am usually told I don't charge enough and I can understand that but.... I've recently completed a somewhat rush job for a group on my day job. Someone was retiring and they had some things they wanted etched. The presented me with four crystal whiskey glasses and a $200 bottle of scotch. They wanted a logo on the front of the glasses and four different phrases on the bottoms etched in reverse so they could be read while drinking. On the bottle I did the same logo on the back so you could see it from the front and then a congratulations phrase on the front. I did have to work on the logo for about an hour to an hour and a half to get it to a place where it would work right. I was a little hesitant to do the crystal because I've heard horror stories about it but in the end it worked fine. The bottle, I was a little concerned since it was so expensive but again, worked fine. I am in a bit of a quandary as to what to charge. I've looked at a few laser etching web sites and saw that a custom logo or statement on a glass can cost anywhere from $15 to $20 per glass but the etcher is supplying the glasses in this case (which is ALWAYS my preference but they wanted me to do these glasses). I thought about $15 per glass but that seems a bit high since they supplied the glasses...but there was risk in involved with each piece so perhaps you add a little for the risk?...I generally end up charging $10-$12 per glass when I supply the glasses (based upon the cost of the glass and the burn time). I haven't usually charged anyone a setup fee. BUT, I anticipate I will move on to do this full-time in the next couple of years so things will need to change and perhaps now is the time to begin charging legitimate prices....but what are legitimate prices?.... I've always been able to rely on the pros here to give solid advice so, could anyone who actually does this for a living share me some basic rules of thumb for pricing jobs?...I need to start getting serious about this. Thanks for your input!

[Tim Bateson]

Price as if this WAS your full-time job. If you discount too much now, raising rates later when you do depend on this income is much harder.

[Ross Moshinsky]

This has been covered several times but the skinny is on a customer supplied item you need to think of your time and your risk. Add up the time it takes you to do the job and charge that $1-2/min. It will typically get you close to where you want to be on a job like this. One thing we've learned is give a price BEFORE you do the work. That way you don't have to worry about backlash if it's too high.

As a rule of thumb on something like this: I'd charge $45-70 setup fee per item. The glass would probably be around $5-15 each depending on what they want. The bottle probably around $20. Sometimes the setup charge will cover the engraving of the first item. Sometimes I add it on. Setting up the job, engraving test samples on blue tape, proofs, ect make a setup charge necessary.

[Joe Pelonio]

Yes, there are many long threads on pricing. You give out a price and have people tell you they saw the same thing on the internet for 1/2 the price. Don't let that influence you to drop your price. You are trying to make money, and if you only wanted to make $10 an hour you could work in retail and not have to buy a laser. Decide how much your time is worth, and price accordingly. For materials, I always get at least double what I paid for it and any shipping cost. You can maintain spreadsheets on the various materials and keep the cost updated as prices change, to make it easy to find a square inch or square foot price.

When you calculate the labor, preparing artwork, especially cleaning up picture files, should be billed at a higher rate than just changing material in the machine. be sure to include something for overhead, including wear and tear on the machine so that you have money for a new tube or motor when it goes out. At $1/minute ($60/hour) with the overhead of electricity, rent, expendables like transfer or masking tape, double sided tape and cleaning supplies, you may be down to $40-50/hour profit, your pay. I think at least $75/hour and $100 for artwork is more reasonable. You should also consider a minimum charge, in the case of something like one 1"x3" name badge with only a name on it your formula may work out to $2. It's really not worth turning on the laser for that.

[Kev Williams]

Just when you think you have your prices about right, someone will walk in and will act like your $5 quote will bankrupt them. Worst cheapskate I ever ran into thought I was gouging him with a $3.25 quote for 6 minutes worth of engraving. He assured me there'd be MILLIONS of the things sold, how could I charge so much? Turns out he embezzled money from his partners. Then there was the guy who bought 5000 small frying pans from China, then found out he couldn't sell them unless they had "Made In China" on them. He paid 25 cents each for the pans, and expected to pay less than that to have them engraved... China's thataway, pal...

[Tim Bateson]

None of this is exact science. I have one product that I get $20/hr for and one as high as $1,200/hr (twice that if I could load & unload faster). So don't let that $1/min or $100/hr force you into any specific pricing. You've gotten some great advice from others here.

I do loose clients because I've asked too much - that is to be expected. On the other hand it's not unusual for a client to tip me a good deal when they see the final product. I know several local engravers that are no longer in business because they were only charging enough to cover (at least one case not) their costs. Only you know what you need to make to be profitable & you will learn what the market will bear in your area.

[Mark Ross]

Don't forget to factor in setup and change over times.

[Shannon Bruce]

We charge a set up fee and engraving is per square inch pricing. We also charge $30 per hour for artwork charges, even though everyone thinks we can just take a .jpeg and engrave it onto anything! All of the labor rates and overhead costs are factored in to the total price. For example, we sell 27oz Beer mugs for $14.00 each (engraved), but if someone brings their own mug or glass in, we charge an $8.00 set up, $1.20 per square inch and any applicable art charges. Almost all of our engraving is billed out at $0.65 per square inch, with glass and crystal at $1.20. Of course we bill any material that is in our stock at different amounts, but it is still standardized by square inches.

Just a different take on it

[Joe Sanchez]

William, when I first started out, I was hesitant to price myself out of a job. But then I started to breakdown a job, even if its was only playing around with materials in the shop. You would be amazed at the labor involved to do art-work and setup. You may have to create a jig to hold the pieces, you may have to apply a chemical to do an etch, you may have to clean up art-work (or generate art-work) to be able to complete the job. People always say, "its only a name, initial, monogram, how hard is that"? The answer is what ever you want to pay yourself an hour is what you need to start calculating now. I agree with Joe Pelonio, if you are only getting $10 an hour, its a hobby and not a serious business. Bottom line: you can see what the market bears and if you want a bit more, you have to justify that to your customer; perhaps you offer extra services that warrents a higher price. I have found out that people will nickel and dime you, if YOU let them. They have no control over your prices, you do; but they do have control on how fast you can fail if you take their cheap paying jobs.

[Bill Stearns]

Hi All -
My son created an Excel spreadsheet for me - which includes calculating formulas, etc. I mostly use it for the LaserMax plastic signs I engrave. (sheet price/cost is incorporated in the formula, adding 'little for S&H.) - I simply type in the size (inches) of the sign I'll be doing - the material - then, the quantity - and Excel gives me the price per sign, and total for all. - with, or without sales tax.) Plus my gross margin 'n some other info. (also, I'm able to quickly add in cost for "holes", shaped corners, tape backing, etc.) I have my basic price list printed out, of course - still, this spreadsheet comes in handy on some jobs. - just a thought.
Off to supper ...

Bill

[Isaac Clarke]

I charge the same whether they provide the materials or not. This allows me to cover substandard materials or glass that wont engrave. But more often than not they will just have me engrave my own glasses that I know will engrave ok, are in plentiful supply incase of mistake or error and can be done with a quick turnaround time. I've noticed people don't have the glasses already when they ask me about engraving.

[Ross Moshinsky]

William, when I first started out, I was hesitant to price myself out of a job. But then I started to breakdown a job, even if its was only playing around with materials in the shop. You would be amazed at the labor involved to do art-work and setup. You may have to create a jig to hold the pieces, you may have to apply a chemical to do an etch, you may have to clean up art-work (or generate art-work) to be able to complete the job. People always say, "its only a name, initial, monogram, how hard is that"? The answer is what ever you want to pay yourself an hour is what you need to start calculating now. I agree with Joe Pelonio, if you are only getting $10 an hour, its a hobby and not a serious business. Bottom line: you can see what the market bears and if you want a bit more, you have to justify that to your customer; perhaps you offer extra services that warrents a higher price. I have found out that people will nickel and dime you, if YOU let them. They have no control over your prices, you do; but they do have control on how fast you can fail if you take their cheap paying jobs.

This is exactly it. You want me to engrave a plate? Not a big deal but you still have to pay me. You want me to engrave some odd shaped thing and have it look right? It's going to cost more because it's going to take a lot longer.

Even on something as simple as a glass, you need to run a test or two on blue tape to get the right location. The rubber cones offset each style glass differently. That means I just can't punch numbers in and run it. Not unless I'm okay with things not being placed correctly. Once you get the placement correct, then you should do a test on the actual glass to make sure it's going to come out. In the past I've thought going out of focus a certain amount would be okay and it wasn't. Stuff happens. You have to do all this testing, just to engrave 4 glasses. It takes time. With that said, if I did a lot of glass, I'm sure I could improve this process and streamline it a bit, but it doesn't take away from the fact on items like this it takes time to do it right. Time = money.

[Matt McCoy]

I've always liked:

We offer products/services that are GOOD, FAST, and CHEAP. You get to pick two.

[William Milligan]

Thanks for all the great input everyone.....it is very helpful...I guess it is easy to undervalue what I do...I produce a quality product...I check and recheck and run numerous tests to make sure it is going to be just right...I hadn't really thought of that being a part of the "setup" fee but I can see now that it is....what we do is produce pieces of art...at least that is the way I look at it....I am very particular and make sure that whatever I turn over to a customer is of the highest quality....they may not see the imperfection but I do and I make sure the imperfection isn't there....that takes test runs....if doing something in wood I generally always run a test or two in some birch to see what it will look like....in glass...I keep a supply of old water or wine bottles to run tests on....I really should have seen that that is part of my setup...now I do....yes....it's just a name or a logo but it may take awhile to get it just right and that is part of my time which I haven't generally factored into my price....I will from now on...

Thanks Again for your input!

[Bill Stearns]

Hey all - and William -
One more comment from me regarding price - that I've kind' a learned the hard way: "There is NO LOYALTY to Price". For the longest time, I felt I'd be building loyalty - 'least more repeat business - by offering low pricing. Hasn't happened. Have shot myself 'n the foot so many times! (to my credit, they seem to come back for other reasons.) Oh, well ...

Bill