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Thread: The One Stone Challenge

  1. #61
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    Tony, I had a recent convo here, I could copy an paste info but just a quick to visit http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/i...ne-t77337.html

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Haydon View Post
    Tony, I had a recent convo here, I could copy an paste info but just a quick to visit http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/i...ne-t77337.html

    Thanks! Will do.
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Haydon View Post
    Tony, I had a recent convo here, I could copy an paste info but just a quick to visit http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/i...ne-t77337.html
    Good read & guidance. I do believe I shall try this stone in my quest for bald arms (to match my head!). Seriously, I am going to order one, for two reasons: it seems it will be a bit finer than my hard arkansas and second, it seems it will cut a tad finer than my hard arkansas. Actually there is a third, I have a stone I have not ever used, that appears to be slate and I would like to do a comparison.
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  4. #64
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    As was aluded to elsewhere about stones, I don't see it is a "game changer", it's just a blooming good value slate hone that will last for ages!

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Haydon View Post
    David, it's interesting you mention the UK love for the Washita. Joinery text of the late 19th century and early 20th century is littered with glowing praise for them.

    Also on Welsh slate, now that's a way to get a cheap polishing stone http://www.inigojones.co.uk/products/Honing-Stone.php $10.00 > £6.00. I have one and it comes with a slightly textured surface that needs bedding in or dressing, can't complain for £6.00. It is suggested that it polishes to around the 8000 mark and the makers advise water. However it works just as well with my favorite honing juice which is baby oil.
    It might not surprise anyone (graham, I don't know how long you've been reading) to know that I've been through all of the welsh slates I could try. The only thing I really haven't tried are the dalmore blue and a good large version of the tam-o-shanter hone graded for fine work. I do have a scrap of the latter, I just haven't seen a good tam o shanter full sized bench stone nor a dalmore blue (I don't even know if the latter comes from scotland) and have been told they are not as fine as one would expect.

    The dragon's tongue is a good inexpensive option for tinkering. It's too bad UK post has blown up the ability to ship things here inexpensively. I guess they can't be shipped under small packets postage?

  6. #66
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    $28.00 for shipping, David! I added 2 & 3 to my cart and for each additional stone, the price increased by another $28!
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  7. #67
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    Not long David, I only became aware of this forum after a chance encounter with Chris G on another forum. Well it seems you are quite the journeyman of stones! I think think the packets get kinda bigger to protect the slates I guess.

    Have you tried old Turkey stones? They also seem quite prized by 19th century woodworkers.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Zaffuto View Post
    $28.00 for shipping, David! I added 2 & 3 to my cart and for each additional stone, the price increased by another $28!
    Yeah, UK shipping is difficult. It's not the fault of the seller, it's the UK post - they just don't have any good options for lighter weight things like Japan does, for example (where EMS for the same thing might be $12 or $15).

    The only hope is finding something small enough that it fits in small packets service, but I don't know the constraints around that. Sometimes, you can get plane irons, shaving soap, etc, that qualifies as small packets, but I haven't yet gotten a stone that does.

    There still are some things that are inexpensive enough in the UK that it's worth looking, but anything bigger than a backsaw had better cost hundreds of dollars to make it worth the extra shipping cost.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Haydon View Post
    Not long David, I only became aware of this forum after a chance encounter with Chris G on another forum. Well it seems you are quite the journeyman of stones! I think think the packets get kinda bigger to protect the slates I guess.

    Have you tried old Turkey stones? They also seem quite prized by 19th century woodworkers.
    I think folks over here use the world turkey stones less, and sometimes for the wrong stuff. My interpretation of the turkey stone is that it's a fast cutting washita, as opposed to just a soft arkansas stone that is not as good of a stone. Does that reconcile? I know that the UK has no in-between stones locally, and stuff coarser than a slate hone before the washita arrived there was stuff like sandstones, etc, and the washita blows those away.

    I do like the charnleys and such, but they usually bring a lot of money over here and the price of all of that stuff has gone through the roof since the shavers picked it up (at least some of the things appear to be a bit more reasonable), and when you get to the end of the day with the UK hones and ask whether or not they're better than a black or translucent arkansas for woodworking on the fine side, I think the answer is no. They are certainly suitable as fine stones, though, and better than anything else in the US other than the arkansas stones (and the finest slates make very good inexpensive razor hones).

    I like them with oil as you do, they cut finer.

  10. #70
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    Can't beat a bit of oil. The Turkey stones always seem expensive, I keep an eye out but with no joy yet.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Haydon View Post
    Not long David, I only became aware of this forum after a chance encounter with Chris G on another forum.
    And we are glad to have you here. This forum is way better ...looks like Tom King found his way over here semi recently as well. Always nice when additional knowledgeable people such as yourselves join us.

    For those who don't know Graham, he makes his living doing some real nice woodwork/finish carpentry on the other side of the pond. http://gshaydon.co.uk/products
    Last edited by Chris Griggs; 03-07-2014 at 6:45 PM.
    Woodworking is terrific for keeping in shape, but it's also a deadly serious killing system...

  12. #72
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    I'm with Derek here, and in addition this thread seems somewhat absurd. David's ostensibly talking about using a single stone; but every other message he says he's buying another stone or three (admittedly this could be stone-buying inertia that could take years to heal ). How do you decide which stone is capable of sharpening every type of metal under all conditions? I get it that you're all assuming the use of a grinder, but grinders incorporate stones, right? And multiple stones at that. And you always get a hollow grind, which seems to be fine with most of you but not with me.

    Also, different stones work differently depending on the metallic composition of your edges. Because of that I tend to buy only high carbon (white paper); but the odd A2 (such as the LV miniatures) or HSS (turning tools) or PM will often sneak in. Those exceptions must be accommodated with more time and/or less sharpness if not different stones.

    In the process of choosing that one stone you've got to buy many stones. What do you do with all those ultimately extra stones? What if some of these actually worked particularly well in some conditions? You really want to keep them and incorporate them into the process for some tools. So basically this may be a worthy goal, but impractical and illogical and potentially expensive.

    If you have only one type of metal for all your tools, perhaps you could use a single stone, many say they do this now; but ...
    Last edited by Jack Curtis; 03-07-2014 at 8:09 PM.

  13. #73
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    I think the opposite is true, many people say they refuse to use a single steel, especially if it is something that agrees with natural stones. I'd figure the biggest hurdle in all of this would be convincing someone that they can use only carbon steel and they won't be spending every second at the sharpening bench. All of the things that irritate me about other types of steel (soft chrome vanadium chisels that make a big wire edge that just folds back and forth over and over unless you use a super fine stone, ...that kind of thing) have just gone away.

    I just got another stone off of ebay, too. There's some inertia there.

    As todd hughes used to say, "i sort of collect them". Except with todd, that was just about everything it seemed - the rarer and more odd, the better.

    I am curious if there are other stones that would do as well as the washita, because there isn't anything reasonable about washitas right now. Before I ever screwed around with trying to get one oil stone to do everything, I was squeezing more out of synthetic stones, and razoring really brought all of this about, because you don't get a whole lot of good out of any natural stone with a razor until you learn to use it and derive an edge from the process that is better than you'd generally get with a woodworking tool where heavier pressure is par for the course.

    I will sharpen anything I can get my hands on in the house, including toenail clippers, utility knife blades, cheap scissors...anything (knives, too, of course). Even if my stones go into disuse because I'm just using one at the bench, or at least one at a time, it's no big deal. I've got a bunch of rocks from kyoto sitting in the drawer, probably about about a dozen (and no junk) and they haven't seen much action, but I'm sure that in the long term, they'll be fine.

    Another thing that made me curious about this is that NBSS (According to bill tindall or someone) puts out fine indias and they don't go finer. Presume the carvers use something to step up from that, though.

    Anyway, I don't have any need to actually use all of the stones regularly, they are safe in a large bench of drawers. It's the synthetics that I don't really want to keep too long, they turn into pumpkins when the next new thing comes out.

  14. #74
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    Cheers Chris , Tom does some pretty sweet work too http://www.historic-house-restoratio...indowwork.html

    I'm not sure I find the thread absurd. I'm not sure what NBSS is or who Bill Tindal is but I will repeat (sorry for that) that a fine/coarse India is a perfectly good way to prepare edges. Yep, I do have a way to grind but grinding and honing have normally been two seperate things. I'm not sure I fully understand why an India wont work so well on newer steels. I bought a UK version of the woodriver and it has a T10 RC 60>63 Water hardened blade (I have no idea what that really means) but it is hard and sharpens fine on an India. It even produces proper shavings once you reshape the LN copied cap iron.

    Type 2.jpg

  15. #75
    interesting challenge. I don't understand some of the elaborate processes some go through for sharpening. I uses one hard oil stone. Hollow grind on the grinder, then free hand on the stone. Pull the burr on the strop. Sharp, done and move on.

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