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Thread: What should I do with these honing stones?

  1. #1
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    What should I do with these honing stones?

    Here's a bunch of questions mainly aimed at Mr Weaver, but any comments are equally welcome.


    I have been reorganizing my workshop a bit and in that process I have tried to make an inventory, getting rid of some stuff and try ing to put some other stuff into use.


    I have several hone stones which see almost no use. Some of them are badly worn, scratched and uneven, but some are good enough to be used. And remembering David's points about certain stones for certain uses and steel, I now wonder how I could put these stone to use.


    Before asking my questions I should add that I am a mixed user. I don't swear to any specific method, material or grit. I use diamond plates, sandpaper on glass, natural stones and a fine/ultra fine Japanese water stone.


    So here goes:
    Norton Pike oilstone (6 inch) with a coarse and medium surface. I prefer to do my sharpening with water, but if there are areas where this oilstone serves better, Id be happy to try it out. If not, it will have to find a better home.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/finnberg68/sets/72157642218701585/


    Carborundum no 115. I have tried this stone several times. It cuts, but theres something I don't like about this one. It's a noisy stone, it seems to smear a lot and I can't say I think the cutting is exceedingly good. But maybe I'm using it for the wrong purpose.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/finnberg68/sets/72157642244274204/


    Dalmore Blue Hone. This Scottish stone seems to cut rather quickly, creates a very rich slurry and I have used it with good results on some tools, but it is rather soft and seems to wear quickly. Does it excel in any specific fields or with specific metal?
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/finnberg68/sets/72157642218701745/


    Unidentified green natural stone I. Not sure if this was made as a razor's hone or something else, but this one inch wide and maybe 6 inch long piece of stone is uneven on all four sides. It is an efficient cutter, but in it's current condition it seldom sees any use. I wonder if this one was deliberately made hollow for sharpening curved edges? It looks rather dull when dry but will display beautiful shades of light and dark green blended with streaks of black.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/finnberg68/sets/72157642218701555/


    Unidentified greenish natural stone II. My pictures will probably struggle to properly display this stone, but it is a large piece, being approximately 10 X 2 X 2 inches. This one is very ugly on the surface, but I would consider this a honing stone. It will create a mirror image, if you can find a flat and unscratched area on the surface.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/finnber...7642218701645/


    Unidentified grey natural stone no III
    Measuring 2 by 5 inches, this is probably the most used stone in my workshop. It is a lovely, very fine stone and despite having used this one for honing on a almost daily basis, this stone is still dead flat. It's very hard, it can be used with very light or really hard pressure. This one is a sure keeper, but out of curiosity I'd like to know what it is.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/finnberg68/sets/72157642218701465/


    Unidentified natural stone IV. This one is rather thin, measuring 2 3/8 x 8 inches. It is very hard, the colour being a dull graphite when dry and almost black when wet.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/finnberg68/sets/72157642218701535/


    Unidentified natural stone V: I don't like this stone. It seems rather coarse, it is loud and when tested haven't produced any significant results as a cutter. Again a very hard stone, but with a very bleak undefined dark hue when dry and day petroleum when wet.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/finnberg68/sets/72157642218701685/
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    Rust never sleeps
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/77333663@N07/sets

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Malmberg View Post
    Here's a bunch of questions mainly aimed at Mr Weaver, but any comments are equally welcome.


    Well, I have a sanctuary....just kidding

    I have been reorganizing my workshop a bit and in that process I have tried to make an inventory, getting rid of some stuff and try ing to put some other stuff into use.


    I have several hone stones which see almost no use. Some of them are badly worn, scratched and uneven, but some are good enough to be used. And remembering David's points about certain stones for certain uses and steel, I now wonder how I could put these stone to use.


    Before asking my questions I should add that I am a mixed user. I don't swear to any specific method, material or grit. I use diamond plates, sandpaper on glass, natural stones and a fine/ultra fine Japanese water stone.


    So here goes:
    Norton Pike oilstone (6 inch) with a coarse and medium surface. I prefer to do my sharpening with water, but if there are areas where this oilstone serves better, Id be happy to try it out. If not, it will have to find a better home.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/finnberg68/sets/72157642218701585/
    The most common probably of all hones (but also useful on the india side, and the carborundum side is useful as a grinding stone if it's still a little friable) - it's cool that your label says made in england, I haven't come across one that does. Up to you whether you keep it or use it. It's hard to get anything for them because new fresh ones are only about 20 bucks in 2x8. I got a machine shop bag full of stones at one point, and there was at least 7 or 8 aluminum oxide stones where one after the other had been used dry until it glazed and then cast aside in favor of a new one. They're all old and hard, though.


    Carborundum no 115.
    I have tried this stone several times. It cuts, but theres something I don't like about this one. It's a noisy stone, it seems to smear a lot and I can't say I think the cutting is exceedingly good. But maybe I'm using it for the wrong purpose.


    I've had a couple of carborundum stones (but barber specific types). They're silicon carbide, which is nothing special now. Of all of the stones you see around, if you see an unused stone, it's most likely to be a carborundum stone or a norton synthetic combo oilstone (al ox on one side and silicon carbide on the other). I've never used a big one as a bench stone, but I don't generally like silicon carbide for regular honing. It cuts very deep little scratches. Most of them don't have any real value, so it might be more trouble to sell and ship than it's worth.



    Dalmore Blue Hone
    . This Scottish stone seems to cut rather quickly, creates a very rich slurry and I have used it with good results on some tools, but it is rather soft and seems to wear quickly. Does it excel in any specific fields or with specific metal?
    One of the few natural stones that I haven't had the urge to try because they don't get much fanfare on the razor boards - not fine and not fast, but maybe a better stone for pocket knives. Haven't got a real suggestion, but you could sell it to a shaver maybe, as a prefinisher. The fact that you have the very nifty box is cool (and adds to value), but the fact that the company graded it for carpenters and joiners (rather than razors) limits it a little.

    Unidentified green natural stone I
    . Not sure if this was made as a razor's hone or something else, but this one inch wide and maybe 6 inch long piece of stone is uneven on all four sides. It is an efficient cutter, but in it's current condition it seldom sees any use. I wonder if this one was deliberately made hollow for sharpening curved edges? It looks rather dull when dry but will display beautiful shades of light and dark green blended with streaks of black.


    Seems the striped pattern on that stone is familiar, but I can't remember what I've seen them marketed as. Most of the green sedimentary hones are probably better left as a guess, the proof of the cut counts. It's probably rounded because someone used it without flattening and didn't find it unfavorable to use that way (several old barber hones that I've gotten, including a huge 2x10 escher, were that way. I guess the barber uses them and the razor and the stone stay in tune with each other because they don't see other stones and that's the end of it.). If you put it to the diamond hone to flatten it, do you think you could use it as a shaver? If you could, that's what I would do with it.



    Unidentified greenish natural stone II
    . My pictures will probably struggle to properly display this stone, but it is a large piece, being approximately 10 X 2 X 2 inches. This one is very ugly on the surface, but I would consider this a honing stone. It will create a mirror image, if you can find a flat and unscratched area on the surface.
    no clue again. You'd have to lap the face of it to fresh and clean to be able to tell what it is. If all else fails, slate is a good guess. lapping would give you an idea of the true fineness, too.


    Unidentified grey natural stone no III
    Measuring 2 by 5 inches, this is probably the most used stone in my workshop. It is a lovely, very fine stone and despite having used this one for honing on a almost daily basis, this stone is still dead flat. It's very hard, it can be used with very light or really hard pressure. This one is a sure keeper, but out of curiosity I'd like to know what it is.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/finnber...7642218701465/
    no clue, but it looks like novaculite or some other kind of chert - no clue what else would have that glassy glaze. If it's good, it's good.


    Unidentified natural stone IV.
    This one is rather thin, measuring 2 3/8 x 8 inches. It is very hard, the colour being a dull graphite when dry and almost black when wet.


    Looks like slate. lighter colored slurry, and hard, but something you could scratch with the corner of something steel?



    Unidentified natural stone V:
    I don't like this stone. It seems rather coarse, it is loud and when tested haven't produced any significant results as a cutter. Again a very hard stone, but with a very bleak undefined dark hue when dry and day petroleum when wet.
    Not sure again on that one. If it was rounded, you'd guess it was a scythe stone. I'd guess it was made longer and narrow for a purpose, but I wouldn't know what.

    Some of those are pretty tough to figure out!!
    Last edited by David Weaver; 03-12-2014 at 8:27 AM.

  3. #3
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    Many Thanks David. I appreciate it. So, going back to putting these to use. I'm not interested in possible value and I doubt any of them would have any, especially in this condition. The Dalmore only came with the lid, which is very tatty, so I'm not sure it would add a lot of value. But some of these stones seem promising and getting some of them back to work would be the primary idea. So, you're saying I could use a diamond plate to straighten them out. Can I start with a coarse one or do I need to keep it fine all the way?
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    Rust never sleeps
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/77333663@N07/sets

  4. #4
    I'd use a coarse one - it'll give you a sense of the true particle size in stones, too. The only stones that need to be followed with something finer are the hard fine stones that you have that you'll use a razor on.

    As an aside, one of the washitas I bought in a strop-top box that someone was using for razors was allowed to glaze so much that you couldn't see the surface. Someone had carefully used it (it was still flat) with razors and the glazed/swarf layer on top was something that would've taken a very long time to get there and keep as neatly as it was, and it probably barely cut at that point - ideal for a razor. But once I lapped it, it's a bit finer than a lilywhite washita, but still too coarse for a razor.

    The glaze can really hide a lot.

    Wish I had better answers for you on all of those unidentifiable slates, but that's the kind of stuff that shows up in antique shops around here, too, and I usually have no clue what it is here, either. Most of the domestic slate hones that were cut and put together here are black, though, and quite often not very fine.

    I shouldn't badmouth the carborundum hone too much. You can keep it around in case you have something your other stones don't cut that well - there are some things that silicon carbide cuts better than regular aluminum oxide stones, just make sure it's kept clean because SC breaks down fast and clogs the surface of those stones. Why they're rarely used heavily when found, I don't know. They weren't cheap when they were new - they were about the same price as a quality natural arkansas stone. I'd imagine they were marketed based on their ability to cut any steel hard or soft, alloyed or not.

  5. #5
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    I looked at the picture of the blue Dalmore,but it's so dark I can't tell anything about it.

    Is this possibly the same thing as a Water of Aer(sp?)Scottish type stone for smoothing out silver hollow ware while making it? These usually came in 1/4" square sticks,and were bluish gray in color. I don't know if it could be salvaged,looking full of oil. If it could,I might could come up with a reasonable way to saw it into sticks for silver smith work. I have a friend who is a silver smith.

    Oh,I just noticed you are in Finland. Shipping might be too high.
    Last edited by george wilson; 03-12-2014 at 9:14 AM.

  6. #6
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    Thanks again. I wasn't really expecting you to name all mys tones. I think this is an area where a few not too good images might do more harm. And describing a colour is really quite individual. But just going back to my own favorite stone. You're saying that my glazed stone could become a more efficient cutter if I'd lap it. I think I might prefer it as is, simply because I never use a leather strop for final honing. Yes, some might be shocked by this. But I have never tried to reach a level of sharpening where I could shave my arms with an workshop edge. Not saying sharp isn't important, but with the wood I most deal with, I haven't needed anything finer than what this stone can provide. I can't tell you what grit this stone produces, but I'd say it is much finer than my 6000 grit Japanese water stone. So changing how this stone cuts would mean I'd have to find another stone for honing or learn to work with a charged strop.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    Rust never sleeps
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/77333663@N07/sets

  7. #7
    http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site...rt_ord=asc&z=0

    There's an interesting page of pictures/etc/ regarding the scotch hones (water of ayr, dalmore, tam o shanters). I've never seen a nice labeled TOS in person (though they're not prohibitively expensive) and the WOA stones in big sizes are harder to find by several orders of magnitude (that I've seen at least).

    I wonder how much good stuff is in the piles of unfinished stone in that building.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Malmberg View Post
    Thanks again. I wasn't really expecting you to name all mys tones. I think this is an area where a few not too good images might do more harm. And describing a colour is really quite individual. But just going back to my own favorite stone. You're saying that my glazed stone could become a more efficient cutter if I'd lap it. I think I might prefer it as is, simply because I never use a leather strop for final honing. Yes, some might be shocked by this. But I have never tried to reach a level of sharpening where I could shave my arms with an workshop edge. Not saying sharp isn't important, but with the wood I most deal with, I haven't needed anything finer than what this stone can provide. I can't tell you what grit this stone produces, but I'd say it is much finer than my 6000 grit Japanese water stone. So changing how this stone cuts would mean I'd have to find another stone for honing or learn to work with a charged strop.
    Yeah, the chert/novaculite hone or whatever that hard silica looking lighter stone is, I wouldn't touch that one. If you did, it would instantly be less fine than a 6k grit water stone and you'd have to work it back to fineness again. I'm not aware of anything in the natural world that consistently has particles smaller than about 3 microns, not even the thuringian types nor the finest japanese stones, all of which don't really cut that fine if they're on a slurry or if they're too soft to keep water clear.

    I was referring more to the other stones of less value - the green ones. Even if they're better with use, I'd start over with a clean surface on them and then break them in with use to find out how they are.

  9. #9
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    Man! I'd love to have some of those left over stone sticks just piled on the saw in the pictures!! Is that some kind of a museum? Years ago you could order the Water of Ayr(thanks for the spelling,David) from most any jeweler's supply.

  10. #10
    They were probably easy to get when that place was still cutting and packing stones, and they were probably cheap.

    I don't know if the scotch quarries and operations have gone the way of the welsh, but most of the old operations that still exist are projected, and I'd imagine that factory (which isn't very big) is a museum now.

    I'd like to pick a few large sticks out of the piles, too. Since I've never used hones of those types, I have no clue what they're like - curiosity is an awful thing. Fortunately, they're not that easy to find (the WOA hones) or I'd have probably bought one of them to try with razors. Tried the charnley, didn't like it, tried the welsh slate, it's servicable, and the WOA would probably end up being a lot like other hone slates - slow on hard things.

    The hard chert hones (novaculites, jaspers, etc, ) are the real treats because they are so hard and tolerate such a wide range of use (from slurry that is coarse and fast) to settled in where they never go out of flatness for practical purposes. I wonder where David Barnett went. He used to talk often about cheap pieces of chert and their virtues as hones and polishers. Hard wouldn't be a virtue on silver, though - I wouldn't be surprised if those WOA stones were a bit soft. Do you remember?

  11. #11
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    The WOA are quite soft,and quickly develop a slurry. They were used on soft silver. I don't think they'd hold up on steel at all. I'd just like them for my silver smith friend.

  12. #12
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    Hi George. The Dalmore has not been used with oil at all, only water.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    Rust never sleeps
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