Need advice on a new smoothing plane

[Pat Barry]

I am looking for what is termed, I believe, a new smoothing plane.

All the discussion regarding handle design, bevel up vs bevel down, chip breaker setting, secondary bevels, convex grinds, etc as me excited about improving my own woodworking capability. I feel I am perhaps limited by my tools as well as my knowledge and and expertise (naivete I believe is the proper term).

Maybe a bit more about my application. Woods of prime interest are hard and soft and curly maples, pine, walnut, white ash, red and white oak. Nothing exotic and particularly difficult like some folks here frequently work with. Maybe even just a focus on the finer woods of this type (ie - don't worry about trying to come up with something for the red oak which is so despised by some). I have an assortment of Stanley, Bailey, Great Neck, Buck Bros, other old off brands. I have far too many Jack planes and not one go-to smoother. What I'd like to do is dedicate one carefully adjusted plane to my final finishing work.

I suspect everyone here has their own thoughts on what would constitute the best plane to look for and buy for this purpose and therefore what I'd like to solicit is thoughts on which one plane each of you endorse most heartily for your own work of this nature. If you wish, then any rationale you have for your choice would be appreciated as well but, please, don't feel like this is what I am asking for - really I just want to integrate and rank the responses by model and type and so that I can dig into each of them with some research and testing perhaps to help me make a final decision. If its a new plane available from LN or LV or where-have-you, or a vintage Stanley, or perhaps a custom built woodie - anyway you wish.

Thank you in advance for sharing your knowledge in this regard.

[allen long]

Pat,

I was not clear on whether you are thinking of rehabbing one of your current planes or obtaining a new one (or a new "old/used" one). Do you have a number 3 or 4 Stanley or Bailey you can refurb?

Short answer, a refurbished Stanley with a new blade could very likely wind up being your go-to plane

Longer answer - I have a Lie Nielsen bronze 4 with a high angle frog and O1 Blade that takes beautiful shavings in maple. Then again, I have my Dad's Stanley Number 3 with an O1 Hock blade and chip breaker that works just as well. An old Stanley 4-1/2 with an A2 IBC blade and chip-breaker that is OK but not as enjoyable as my No 3 and 4 planes. I am getting in a PM-V11 blade for an old rehabbed Stanley 4 that I suspect will work just as well as the Bronze HAF O1 and the Stanley 3 (if my PM-V11 chisels are any indication).

[Adam Cruea]

Pat,

I was not clear on whether you are thinking of rehabbing one of your current planes or obtaining a new one (or a new "old/used" one). Do you have a number 3 or 4 Stanley or Bailey you can refurb?

Short answer, a refurbished Stanley with a new blade could very likely wind up being your go-to plane

Longer answer - I have a Lie Nielsen bronze 4 with a high angle frog and O1 Blade that takes beautiful shavings in maple. Then again, I have my Dad's Stanley Number 3 with an O1 Hock blade and chip breaker that works just as well. An old Stanley 4-1/2 with an A2 IBC blade and chip-breaker that is OK but not as enjoyable as my No 3 and 4 planes. I am getting in a PM-V11 blade for an old rehabbed Stanley 4 that I suspect will work just as well as the Bronze HAF O1 and the Stanley 3 (if my PM-V11 chisels are any indication).

I've got a PM-V11 in my 604 Bedrock and it freaking rocks. Good choice, good choice.

[Andrew Fleck]

There is likely going to be as many opinions on this as there are on shapening stones. I just got a Veritas bevel up smoother that works really well for me. I know I'm not the only one who likes this plane. Previously I had been using a Record #4 that didn't work so well.

[Pedro Reyes]

I think that for 90% of your intended use a rehabbed Stanley #4 or #3 with a good iron (Hock or LV) will work as good as anything else. Curly/figured maples may be the exception, but overall true.

I have both #3 and #4 with LN and hock blades (LN does not offer their blades anymore ) as well as a 4-1/2 with HAF from LN, and for the most part they all work the same until I plane curly maple, the the LN stands out.

/p

[Jim Koepke]

I feel I am perhaps limited by my tools as well as my knowledge and and expertise (naivete I believe is the proper term).

In my experience it has seldom been my tools limiting my results.

My old Stanley/Bailey planes have mostly Stanley blades. A few have Hock O1 blades. The finished surface will look just as smooth no matter which blade was used. A brand new plane will not finish the surface any better.

If you have a #3 or #4 you may just need to set it up with a sharp blade and a chip breaker close to the edge to get superior smoothing.

I have even gotten a #6 with a freshly sharpened blade to leave a super smooth surface. I do not like to say "smooth as glass" but the surface will reflect an image when held at an angle.

There are countless theories on "what works best." What works best is what works for you, the individual user.

Most of the time my blades are just straight across sharpened. No, secondary bevel, no camber, no back bevel and no tricks ruler or otherwise.

In my opinion, a bevel down plane with a chip breaker makes a better smoother than a bevel up plane. When taking a shaving in the extremely thin range, there may be no difference. As stated, it is just my opinion.

For smoothing the lightest shavings possible leaves a smoother surface than trying to take off 20 thousandths per stroke.

So maybe we should start with an inventory of what planes you have now and try to determine why they aren't smoothing over the surfaces you want to smooth.

Of course:

YMMV!!!.jpg

jtk

[Kees Heiden]

A made in England Stanley #4 with a Ray Iles iron and the stock chipbreaker. There is nothing better in this world.

[Adam Cruea]

In my experience it has seldom been my tools limiting my results.

My old Stanley/Bailey planes have mostly Stanley blades. A few have Hock O1 blades. The finished surface will look just as smooth no matter which blade was used. A brand new plane will not finish the surface any better.

If you have a #3 or #4 you may just need to set it up with a sharp blade and a chip breaker close to the edge to get superior smoothing.

I have even gotten a #6 with a freshly sharpened blade to leave a super smooth surface. I do not like to say "smooth as glass" but the surface will reflect an image when held at an angle.

There are countless theories on "what works best." What works best is what works for you, the individual user.

Most of the time my blades are just straight across sharpened. No, secondary bevel, no camber, no back bevel and no tricks ruler or otherwise.

In my opinion, a bevel down plane with a chip breaker makes a better smoother than a bevel up plane. When taking a shaving in the extremely thin range, there may be no difference. As stated, it is just my opinion.

For smoothing the lightest shavings possible leaves a smoother surface than trying to take off 20 thousandths per stroke.

So maybe we should start with an inventory of what planes you have now and try to determine why they aren't smoothing over the surfaces you want to smooth.

Of course:

YMMV!!!.jpg

jtk

I've found that a "smoother" is really whatever you want to be a smoother. I've used a 604, #7, and a #8. As long as they're set up probably, they'll all leave a wonderful surface and can take super-fluffy shavings.

[Chris Griggs]

I like any well made double iron 45-50 degree No. 3- No 4 ish sized plane for an all purpose smoother for north american woods.

I have two main smoothers that I use...a Bailey 4 and a LV SBUS. I love the SBUS A LOT for smoothing and many other things, and I also use a Miller Falls 15 (5 1/2) for a lot of my smoothing, but for most of what I do I prefer a no 4 sized double iron plane as the go-to smoother.

[steven c newman]

Three smoothers I use all the time in the #4 and #3 size: Wood River #4V3, a Millers Falls T4 #9 and a #8, and a Stanley made Wards #3 WWII era. All of these just wandered in the doorway over time. All have their OEM blades. Love the Millers Falls ones, and that Wards. The WR is for that final few passes, instead of a scrapper, or sanding. Just they wat these planes are set up. Even the Wards will leave a smooth as glass surface.

[David Weaver]

Bone stock vintage Stanley 4. Might need to lap the bottom on a flat surface, like a ts wing or jointer table.

[Jack Curtis]

For smoothers/polishers I always choose Japanese, white paper (high carbon) bevel down; and a good quality one is around the price of a LN/LV. Check out offerings from "thejapanblade" on ebay, sold by Alex Gilmore and his wife. He is happy to help you make a choice. A close second is the ECE Primus Reform Smoother 711, but it doesn't burnish quite as well as the Japanese.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

My go to smoothers for most things are a 603 and a Norris A5. I like the 603 size, it's just a great little plane, and the Norris makes is well, a Norris. You can use anything really though, like was said above.

[Winton Applegate]

OK . . .
money is no object right ?
I have a few choices for you . . .
Well I got dirt cheep , in my view, and I got are you freakin' kidding ? . . . glad I bought one when I did.

First off for the woods you mentioned this would be my first choice. Scary what the high efficiency light bulbs do to my bench color (it is actually way browner than that; just looks purple in the photo.



Why a wooden coffin smoother? It is so interesting to own and use. It hardly needs anything on the sole to glide and glide and glide. It is sooooo light and nimble. Designed to plane in many different grips to change direction to follow problem grain. Blade is easily sharpened with oil stones = O1 steel. It was made by a National Treasure who is still alive and working. It is bevel down so you won't be a rogue bevel up junkie rude boy like me. Forever lurking at the fringes of civilization; looking over the fence of respectability and acceptable behavior.

Drawbacks are it has a learning curve and you adjust it with a mallet. The price of a second hand Old Street smoother will take your breath away (but as they say buying the good stuff only hurts once). I am not sure I would buy any old coffin smoother. Maybe some one here can point you at a prize one. I can't.

Problem : you will probably have to buy one second hand on the internet. Unless status has changed Old Street Tools isn't excepting new orders.
http://www.planemaker.com/products.html

I think you would do fine with the bevel down bedrocks that others are recommending for the wood you want to work.
HOWEVER
The planes I use the most would be OH SO SEXY for about any wood so here is what I use and what I recommend for you :
As you probably know I am ALLLL ABOUT the LV wide BU smoother because that is what I have (the wide one). You would maybe do fine getting the narrower one. It is lighter, more maneuverable on smaller projects and for all I know (since I don't have a narrow one) would cut exactly as well for you.

Why do I like the LV BU smoother ? It is so precisely made; it is so inexspensive for such a high quality plane; no fettling what so ever. I love the Nice adjustable throat. with the stop. Super fast and easy to set up and use. No learning curve. Put a sharp blade in it and you are making a world class surface just that easy. SOOOOO EASY TO ADJUST THE CUT IT IS LIKE A CADILAC OR A BENTLEY.





http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/pag...182,41187&ap=1


The Old Street coffin smoother that I mentioned first is at least as accurately made as well. I was totally blown out of my chair when I started really looking at it and measuring . . . I am without words to tell you what a finely crafted plane it is AND IN WOOD !
OK
getting back to the Varitas / LV BU
I really, really like the norris style blade adjuster MUCH better than the funny/sloppy Stanley wheely things. Yuck.
I like the handle better as you have heard me harping on in recent posts.

ALSO

you would probably do just fine with the Varitas / LV BU little block plane with the optional totes. Used as a smoother. It winds up being the same size as the Old Street coffin smoother.

Same quality plane as the other Varitas smoothers I listed above. Same adjuster, same precision, similar handle that I like just fine. Nice adjustable throat. does not have the stop though. Not as robust for taking heavier cuts etc., but you won't be doing that with your smoother anyway and when you take the optional handles off you have a one handed block plane.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/pag...=1,41182,48942


http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/pag...=1,41182,48942


And lastly if you want to make the Old Street look inexpensive you can gander at these.
http://www.marcouplanes.com/Marcou_Planes_0_Gallery.php
I haven't bought one yet but it is just a matter of time. Hey . . . now I know what I want for next Christmas.

Why buy a plane like a Marcou?
First let me say that some times I think only cabinet makers can appreciate high end cabinet making.

So if you are a metal head like I am sitting and staring at a metal tool made like a Marcou is made, or a Holtey, well . . .
That's Heven.

I got the Old Street for Christmas two years ago. Took a year to get it so I skipped Christmas that year main present wise. No plane . . . pining for my plane . . . Where is my plane . . . . THEN (many months later) IT CAME ! YEAH !

I suppose all that was more than you wanted but there it is.

Happy hunting !

[Adam Cruea]

Having a couple mortise chisels in D2, I have *no* clue why you would offer a D2 blade in a smoother.