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Thread: First experience with Veritas MKII honing guide

  1. #31
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    Nice, thanks for sharing, Rob! Looks like a nice, organized setup. I have to agree that a steady hand will produce a better edge. And what better to do that than a honing guide? It never changes angle and reduces the chance for error, since it always holds the blade steady.

    I agree that the film will last for a long, long time if you keep it lubricated with water. It doesn't clog like sandpaper. And thanks for sharing the tip about the cork! I would imagine that a thin, waterproof rubber would do the trick, as well. The blade will bite into the material a little bit for grip.

    I'm eyeing up getting a grinder to help with the heavy material removal when I set an initial bevel. I still plan to use sandpaper/film to finish with. That will likely change down the line to natural stones or better synthetics.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Luter View Post
    I have good success with the MKII, but I really only use it to establish the final edge. I flatten the backs on a diamond stone, then hollow grind everything on a low speed wheel. I use 3M abrasive film to lap the backs and hone the edges using the MKII. The abrasive film lasts a good long time as I'm not using it for the "heavy lifting". I lined the MKII clamp with a thin sheet of PSA backed cork and it grips even the narrowest chisels. I free hand only when touching up edges, as I prefer the precision the jig offers.

    Where and how did you line with cork? Did it change the projection and therefore the honing angle?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Schubert View Post
    Thanks for all of the advice, guys. Since I've started here, everyone's been nothing but kind and generous with their advice and experience.


    And you opened a topic where you will get all sorts of advice! Sharpening is something we all have to deal with, and it happens to be strongly subject to personal preferences. If there are more ways than one to skin a cat, there are at least 10 times as many ways to sharpen your skinning knife. So here are my personal preferences, with no criticism for anyone who does anything or everything another way.

    I, too, am a fan of the Veritas MK-II. I wish I had just bought it first before I bought a lot of other jigs. I stared out buying a granite plate, a whole bunch of wet/dry sandpaper, and an eclipse-style jig, and I almost never use any of that stuff anymore. As others have pointed out, the weakness of the Veritas MK-II is with narrow chisels, especially narrow bevel-edged chisels, and it doesn't work for larger pigstickers. But it's all I use now for plane blades (including my No. 8, which won't fit in some other jigs) and most other chisels. I even use it with my WorkSharp 3000, equipped with a table attachment; I hardly ever use the built-in angle guide for using the bottom side of the sharpening disk. For narrow chisels and many pigstickers, I use Richard Kell's simple little jig that clamps from the side. For very, very short blades, I have the Lee Valley small blade holder; I find it awkward to use, but sometimes it's about the only way to sharpen a short blade, such as a spokeshave blade, to a defined angle. Despite my preference for jigs, after I get a good bevel on a blade, I often sharpen freehand until I decide it's time to go back to a nice, fresh bevel with a good defined angle. An exception is bevel-up plane blades -- I don't handsharpen them because I like to know exactly what the angle is. There are some things, however, that won't work with either of those two solutions. Cigar shave blades are one example; I use a wooden dowel with diamater slightly larger than the inside diameter of the blade, with glued-on sandpaper. For drawknives, I think there may be one or two jigs available, but I sharpen them freehand, either holding the knife by one handle with the other handle tucked into the crook of my arm or against my shoulder -- with the blade AWAY from me so I don't slice my fingers to shreds -- or with the knife clamped at the edge of a workbench. For abrasives, when I'm using the worksharp, I usually pay for the convenience of their pre-cut sandpaper, but sometimes I cut my own. If I'm not using the WorkSharp, I use diamond stones almost exclusively. However, I DON'T use the diamond disks that you can buy for the WorkSharp. The ones I tried didn't last very long, certainly not long enough to justify the cost. And one more sharpening preference -- I usually don't use secondary bevels because I don't see that they do anything for me.
    Last edited by Michael Ray Smith; 03-29-2014 at 2:51 PM.
    Michael Ray Smith

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Proper View Post
    Prashun,
    The "free handing is better" mantra just serves to set some of us up for frustration and acts as a barrier to newbies.
    Dave
    I was frustrated by freehanding when I was a very beginner, and found a lot of favor in the method charlesworth teaches. I don't think it's too much of stretch to suggest that most people who do a LOT of work by hand (as opposed to just chiseling and smoothing) will find favor eventually in getting rid of the jig and moving to harder stones. No shame in doing it either way, but don't discount moving to freehand at some point, it does interrupt the work flow a little less.

  5. #35
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    Go to the "Tools for Working Wood" website and pick up the "Maurice Frasier" DVD on sharpening with oilstones.
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Schubert View Post
    I wonder if maybe a rubber block might help. Something similar to the chisel's thickness that can kind of hold it against the "fence". There has to be a way to make it easier with narrow chisels.
    Yeah, maybe. There are fundamentally two types of jigs for chisels -- those that clamp from the sides and those that clamp from the top. The ones that clamp from the sides obviously do a better job keeping the blade straight -- until they hit a blade with sides that are not parallel. The advantage the MK-II has over other top-clamping jigs is that it has a way to get the blade straight -- of course, getting it straight to begin with doesn't mean it will stay straight, and it doesn't deal well with a blade without parallel sides (or, more precisely, any blade for which you don't want the edge to be at right angles to the side used to register the blade in the jig). Like I said in another post, I use two jigs -- the MK-II most of the time, and occasionally Richard Kell's jig that clamps from the side, and there are still situations in which neither of those two solutions work well.
    Michael Ray Smith

  7. #37
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    Great advice, guys!

    Michael, thank you for taking the time to share your experience and preferences. It makes sense why there are so many opinions on sharpening, as there are many different methods and tools to get the job done.

    David, I agree that I'll likely try freehanding at some point down the road. It's definitely a bit faster. Once a bevel is set, I would imagine that freehand sharpening is much easier.

    Tony, I'll have to check that video out. Thanks for sharing!

  8. #38
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    Eric, TFWW also has one for waterstones. I'm a tool junkie and my shop is full of "aids" to take care of tasks that, once learned, are much quicker when done by hand. I will not say one way or the other is better, but for me, a concave grind, my washita (free hand), my hard arkansas (free hand) and once in a while, my strop. Quickly becomes second nature. I also forgot to add, that for narrow widths, I forgo the concave grinding.
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  9. #39
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    I have several sharpening jigs including the MK ll. I saw how many people were hand sharping and I have gone that way and have never looked back.

  10. #40
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    If you say that you use a guide to sharpen twist drill bits my opinion changes.
    Ha, ha,
    See how different we are ?
    I have the very nice Drill Doctor and like it and use it at home.
    ESPECIALLY when I have a pile of drill bits to sharpen and especially if several of each size.
    BUT
    I don't have one at work.
    So
    I just pull out two small paddle diamond files a coarse and an extra fine that I have in my back back at all times . . .
    . . . you never know when you may have to save humanity
    again
    by sharpening something IN THE BATTLE as it were.
    I have no prob sharpening a twist drill by hand EVEN THE SPLIT POINTS.

    Is the geometry more perfect on the Drill Doctor ?
    oh sure.
    Does it matter for most work ? Especially with hand drills?
    noooooo

    I just started in on the same old response but deleted it.
    What's the use.
    I know what I know from experience
    and I am sure the free handers will say the same.
    all I can say is have fun at what you do.
    I do.
    In case you think I am yoking :
    First photo is my Drill Doctor. The contraption at the top right of the photo is supposed to be a drill bit sharpening jig you use on a bench next to a bench grinder. I spent toooo much time trying to get anything worth while out of it.
    nada
    hence my learning to grind drill bits by hand and hone them by hand. No prob except kind of time consuming and not perfect. and to do a decent job a jewelers loop and or visor is pretty useful especially when you spend as much time as I do staring at this computer screen.
    With the Drill Doctor it is MUUUUCH easier and more precise and the angles are all repeatable.
    I prefer that when I got one with in reach.
    same goes for the plane blades.

    The little black tool roll at the bottom of the first photo is what I carry to get by. Two diamond paddles, a tiny square diamond file and a regular little steel file but I try to use it with great care to keep it sharp.



    I could even touch up the milling cutters in the next two photos with that roll.
    Would I if I had a precision grinder with in reach nooooo.
    In the second photo the large ball end mill is high speed steel and so is the tiny 1/4 inch two flute mill cutter next to it. The third cutter from left to right is solid carbide. The diamond paddles could touch that up as well.



    The last photo shows a rather stout hole saw. It has carbide teeth like a modern table saw blade.
    All sharpen-able with the diamond paddles.

    Better done with a precision grinder.
    A sharpening jig if you will.
    Same for the plane blades.

    Sharpening is Facetating.
    Good enough is good enough
    But
    Better is Better.

  11. #41
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    Ohhhh beeeee careful now

    oilstones.
    Only good for O1 steel.
    My A2 blades, Lee Valley Varitas and LN, literally polish the oil stones and I bought the best I could lay hands on. $200 for my translucent Ark alone.
    For those who wanna try I recommend these guys for oils stones I researched the hell out of it on line and that was the best I could come up with other than track down old used stones on Ebay etc.
    http://www.danswhetstone.com/stone_grades_101.htm

    PS: it is very obvious when the stone is cutting; when I sharpen O1 there is black swarf on the stone and it wipes off. When I try the A2 there is no discernible black swarf and the stone gets shiny where I run the blade back an forth. Then it is over to the diamond plate to get the stone back in usable shape which is time consuming to say the least. The hard Arks are . . .
    well . . . hard
    and
    not hard enough all at the same time.
    To understand that study sharpening stone friability and all those other cool guy terms.
    Very interesting.
    Last edited by Winton Applegate; 03-30-2014 at 2:05 AM. Reason: Elaboration on polishing stone verses cutting steel
    Sharpening is Facetating.
    Good enough is good enough
    But
    Better is Better.

  12. #42
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    Er, how do you hone drill bit? having hung around machine shops for more years than I care to remember I have never seen anyone do more than sharpen one on a grinder.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  13. #43
    Winton, I concur on your comments and conclusion regarding natural sharpening stones from the state Arkansas: my experience exactly. There was recently a thread similar in nature to this one on another popular hand tool forum. Some folks there were touting natural stones as if they were just introduced last week and were the way to go at the expense of all others. In my many years of sharpening hand tools, my natural stones never served me well for the modern tools I acquired that were equipped with A-2 cutters. They were great for my vintage planes and modern O-1 blades and there was something about that that seemed appropriate. Water stones and scary sharp sandpaper could handle any of the above, and man-made stones such as the India stones could do the rougher lapping tasks on just about anything. To those who say their arkys are universally adequate I must respond you are lucky to have specimens that are up to the task and let us know when you are ready to part with them. Maybe those who say the good quality natural stones have long ago been yanked from mother Earth might be right.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winton Applegate View Post
    Only good for O1 steel.
    My A2 blades, Lee Valley Varitas and LN, literally polish the oil stones and I bought the best I could lay hands on. $200 for my translucent Ark alone.
    For those who wanna try I recommend these guys for oils stones I researched the hell out of it on line and that was the best I could come up with other than track down old used stones on Ebay etc.
    http://www.danswhetstone.com/stone_grades_101.htm

    PS: it is very obvious when the stone is cutting; when I sharpen O1 there is black swarf on the stone and it wipes off. When I try the A2 there is no discernible black swarf and the stone gets shiny where I run the blade back an forth. Then it is over to the diamond plate to get the stone back in usable shape which is time consuming to say the least. The hard Arks are . . .
    well . . . hard
    and
    not hard enough all at the same time.
    To understand that study sharpening stone friability and all those other cool guy terms.
    Very interesting.
    Hard steel never touches my oilstones. O1 and I are old friends.

    One thing people don't realize, is that what sharpening system you need depends entirely on the steel you choose for your cutting edges. I choose O1 because I have so much of it, nothing else really gets as sharp, and woods I use don't have natural carborundum in them like stuff that Derek uses. About all I use is old Heart Pine, White Oak, and Walnut, with once in a while another American wood thrown in.

    I get by with the cheapest sharpening setup. I used oilstones for 35 years before I bought the first water stone, but these days I mainly use Norton waterstones up through 8,000, Diamond Lapping Film (on a surface plate) for sharpening, and sandpaper on a surface plate for flattening the stones.

    If you choose the fancier, harder steels, like A2 and above, you will not sharpen as quickly on a cheap waterstone, so when you get tired of the wear on the stone, and the time it takes to flatten, you go to harder, higher dollar stones. Once you go to the harder stones, then you need a several hundred dollar lapping plate to flatten the more expensive stone.

    Most people don't seem to realize that it all has to work together. I'm glad O1 works just fine for me.

    I have several different guides that we use for honing, including the MkII. I hone by hand if I'm in the middle of a project, and an edge needs to be touched up. My helpers are hopeless by hand, but I know they can hand me a sharp edge, as good as I can do, by using the MKII. Take every advantage you can get, at least to start with.
    Last edited by Tom M King; 03-30-2014 at 9:13 AM.

  15. #45
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    Well said Tom! Further, most of us when touting certain stones, typically mention the steel type used. I have mostly O1, but there is some A2 in there and is sharpened on the same stones.
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

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