Galvanized nails! Here we go again!

[Dennis McCullen]

BUYER BEWARE! Well I finally have a slab and have started buying some of the materials need for the new shop. While picking up a few things yesterday and today, I noticed that the popular 5 lb boxes of galvanized common nails at Big Blue as well as a local supply house have some nails that are labeled "hot galvanized" and other nails in the same carton and also a green label that says Exterior galvanized. I am curious if this is a switch to an electro plated nail, generally regarded as inferior to hot dipped nails. A visual inspection tells me the nails are much smoother and I suspect have a thinner zinc coating. Not sure if any of you creekers have noticed this, but the whole treated wood fastener thing doesn't need any more wrinkles, IMHO. If anyone has research the topic, I'd be grateful for your input.

[Jim Andrew]

The last I heard, you need double dipped galvanized to nail your treated plates. The treatment in the treated boards is very corrosive. Unless something has changed. I haven't built a new house in several years.

[Dennis McCullen]

BUYER BEWARE! Well I finally have a slab and have started buying some of the materials need for the new shop. While picking up a few things yesterday and today, I noticed that the popular 5 lb boxes of galvanized common nails at Big Blue as well as a local supply house have some nails that are labeled "hot galvanized" and other nails in the same carton and also a green label that says Exterior galvanized. I am curious if this is a switch to an electro plated nail, generally regarded as inferior to hot dipped nails. A visual inspection tells me the nails are much smoother and I suspect have a thinner zinc coating. Not sure if any of you creekers have noticed this, but the whole treated wood fastener thing doesn't need any more wrinkles, IMHO. If anyone has research the topic, I'd be grateful for your input.

I should not have said "in the same box" but rather a box with the same characteristics and a green label. The only difference is one is hot galvanized and the other box label says exterior galvanized. It is getting more difficult to find the ones that we are supposed to trust for today's treated lumber.

[Mark Bolton]

Dennis,
There is much more to the situation at this point than just what came about upon the move away from CCA. Initially when CCA was taken away from the residential market the first replacement was ACQ which was a high copper treatment and thats what presented the problem with regards to hangers, fasteners, flashings, metal roofing, and so on. But EVEN THEN what you have to remember is that the warnings are for material that lives its life at greater than 19%MC. This means decks, ground contact, wet environments. If the wood is kept dry (i.e. a sill plate, interior basement stud walls, and so on) the corrosive issue is greatly diminished and was almost considered a non issue.

All that being said, the industry moved to G185, double hot dipped, stainless steel, recommendations as a CYA. So you really had no choice. Lumber yards were not going to stock two grades of fasteners and hangers so we all bear the cost of the more expensive options. NOW however, there are several types of treated lumber. CA, CA-b, ACQ, and others. The alternatives to ACQ came about to try to reduce the costly amount of copper in the lumber as well as how corrosive it was. This is why now you will see that only timber products are rated for ground contact. There are generally three grades of treatment, timbers treated at a higher percentage for ground contact, framing and dimensional lumber is treated with less product, and decking is treated with even less product. So gone are the days of being able to put your 2x4's in or on the dirt.

Anyway, what you have to consider is two main things, what type of treated are you getting from your lumber yard, and then where is it going to live.

In the end, the home centers and many lumberyards got caught early on in lawsuits for supplying the new treated with the old fasteners and not making their customers aware (mainly home centers) so they would generally be stocking fasteners appropriate for their lumber. After all, their own deck installers are building the home center decks with their materials which they will have to warranty. Of course its always buyer beware but I wouldnt be too concerned.

[David Helm]

There is one other complication to consider. If the label says "hot galvanized" they are not hot dipped. They are put in a drum with zinc pellets, heated and agitated for the zinc to stick. The label must say "hot dipped" or "double dipped" to ensure you are getting molten zinc on the nails.

[Wade Lippman]

There is one other complication to consider. If the label says "hot galvanized" they are not hot dipped. They are put in a drum with zinc pellets, heated and agitated for the zinc to stick. The label must say "hot dipped" or "double dipped" to ensure you are getting molten zinc on the nails.

I hadn't heard that before and had my doubts, but it turns out you are right!
I also found out that galvanized really meant electroplated, and hot dip isn't. I though it exactly the opposite. Hey, I learned two new things today.

[Ole Anderson]

Why can't the industry just stick with "zinc electro-coated (plated)" or "galvanized" which was always taken to mean hot dipped galvanized? I had never heard of "hot galvanizing" until this thread.

[Lee Schierer]

Why can't the industry just stick with "zinc electro-coated (plated)" or "galvanized" which was always taken to mean hot dipped galvanized? I had never heard of "hot galvanizing" until this thread.

Hot dipped nails are very rough in texture and the coating is quite thick. However, zinc is relatively soft and brittle and tends to flake off when you pound the nails in with a hammer. I would think that since elctro plating actually bonds the zinc to the steel that if you put on a heavier electro plated coating that it would be superior to a hot dipped zinc coating.

[Ole Anderson]

Galvanizing works because the zinc acts as a sacrificial anode in the electro-chemical reaction of corrosion. The zinc actually gives up metal to save the underlying iron. The more zinc you have, the longer it will be able to resist corrosion. Dipping the iron in molten zinc will put a much heavier coat on the iron than by just depositing zinc via electro-plating. I don't know if it is possible to plate the zinc (economically) as heavily as by dipping it in molten zinc.