Setting up after the move - Workshop/DC questions

[daniel lane]

Hi, all -

Moved to LV late last year and am finally getting around to getting the workshop set up. (Have to sell the aircraft project to have enough space, but I'm starting!) I have a couple of questions specific to this space, which is smaller than I've had to work with in a long time. The house has a 2-car garage, 20'W x 20'D, single door. The missus would like to park in the garage during the hotter months, which is to say 8 months of the year. There are a couple of 110V outlets in the garage on a 20A breaker, a GFCI that is on a different circuit (but has a fridge plugged into it right now), and a third 110V circuit TBD. (It's currently out of commission, the management company is sending an electrician to determine why.) Also, if "management company" didn't give it away, we're renting, so I'd like to avoid electrical work. [We would be required to have an electrician do it, even if it's exceedingly simple.] Also, I've installed four of these hanging shelves from the ceiling over the garage door when it opens, lined up with the opener.

Question The First: Dust Control

I'm basically limited to a 10'W by 16'D area for a shop. The back wall of the side I get has a 2x2 'shelf' in the corner that the water heater sits on, and I added 18" deep shelves next to it and all along the back wall of the 'shop' space. I've been using a shop vac and clearvue mini-cyclone for the last 7-8 years, and as I've grown, it's not doing so well. Dust producers that I've got include a TS w/ BenchDog router wing, 8" jointer [possibly...see #2], lunchbox planer, mini lathe, DCMS, 14" bandsaw, and standing drill press. Obviously, space is going to be at a major premium! I'd like to upgrade to an actual dust collector, but everything I've read over the years - and the last week - advises folks to get 2HP units, etc. I'm not sure I have (a) the electrical capacity to plug in a 30A requirement, and (b) the space for a tall unit. What do folks see as the mimimum functional dust collector for such a small space, given the request that it NOT be mobile? I figure I can almost certainly arrange things to be within 10-12 feet of the DC, and given the tiny space but lots of tools, do not want to constantly rearrange. I'd love to have one of those old two-stage collectors, but can't find anything like that. I'm thinking that my options range from something like the wall-mounted Dust Right in combo with a Thein separator in front of it is one option, or a 1.5HP unit like the HF, which will eat floor space. Additionally, I'm in a bit of a conundrum because the better, more expensive units will come with at least a 2x multiplier in cost due to the required electrical upgrade. Finally, with those four hanging shelves in the middle of the ceiling (essentially across the entire garage door opening), does an air filtration unit make any sense? (I was pondering using one of those in combo with the wall-mounted unit.)

Question the Second: The Jointer Question

When I moved from CA, I put my DJ-20 up for sale in the hopes that I wouldn't have to move it. I'm not sure whether it was good or bad luck that it didn't sell (I love that thing), but now I've got an 8" jointer in a tiny workshop, and a 220V requirement. If I decide I can fit the jointer in the shop and will keep it, that guarantees electrical work and I'll look at putting in some more 110V at that time...but that's definitely going to cost. Given space restrictions, etc., does anyone have any thoughts on whether I should just sell the DJ-20 and get a 110V 6" jointer? Obviously this will save me on electrical work, but I fear I lose a lot. I have a DW734 planer and could build a planer sled for it, but I just find it hard to consider downsizing! No, the DJ-20 cannot be rewired for 110V, at least not mine.

I'm sketching up the space as I take measurements so I can try to figure out a layout, when I get something put together I'll post it for additional info. In the meantime, thoughts around workshop space, DC, and the jointer would be appreciated!


Many thanks,

daniel

[Gary Pennington]

Why not replace the 2hp 220v motor with a 1hp 110v? You'll just need to make more passes removing less material per pass. Then if you upgrade your shop, reinstall the 2hp motor.

g

[John Sanford]

Electrical work is not guaranteed. While most homes in Las Vegas have been built with balanced power, you MAY have a 240v 30a outlet for your dryer. If so, consider the option of making a honkin' extension cord, which can allow you to use the DJ-20. A similar consideration can be at play if the house has (or had) a spa.

[daniel lane]

Electrical work is not guaranteed. While most homes in Las Vegas have been built with balanced power, you MAY have a 240v 30a outlet for your dryer. If so, consider the option of making a honkin' extension cord, which can allow you to use the DJ-20. A similar consideration can be at play if the house has (or had) a spa.

John,

Thanks for the thought. Laundry is on the second floor, and is gas - no 220V in the entire house. *sigh* Doesn't let me use the honkin' extension cord I built a couple of years ago to use the dryer outlets in those houses...


Regards,

daniel

[John Sanford]

Oh, you do have 220. You'll be using it soon.... watch the meter spin as your A/C sucks down the 'lectricity. You'll note that I didn't suggest tapping into that line (it's almost certainly hardwired). Las Vegans know not to do anything to compromise the A/C... Now, about those honkin' extension cords you built back in the day...

you wouldn't happen to still have 'em?

[Alan Schaffter]

First question- define "functional". Do you want to remove as much dust as possible with health and cleanliness as a strong consideration or just want to avoid having to use a snow shovel to pick up chips from that lunchbox planer? Your description sounds like you want a chip collector, especially since you mention "Dust Right" which, by the way, won't even handle much in the way of chips. You get what you pay for. If your funds are limited- get the HF DC and vent outside. If you are in a neighborhood, put a Thein on it.

[daniel lane]

First question- define "functional". Do you want to remove as much dust as possible with health and cleanliness as a strong consideration or just want to avoid having to use a snow shovel to pick up chips from that lunchbox planer? Your description sounds like you want a chip collector, especially since you mention "Dust Right" which, by the way, won't even handle much in the way of chips. You get what you pay for. If your funds are limited- get the HF DC and vent outside. If you are in a neighborhood, put a Thein on it.

Alan, "functional" to me means more than chip collection. I've not seen any real reviews on the DR, but my hope was that for a single machine within 5-10 feet, it would work acceptably. From the numbers on the web site, it sounds like it has enough draw to mostly work for chip collection within a short distance, but I figure a Thein baffle on it would probably kill functionality. Venting outside really isn't an option, since the only way to do so would blow dust directly at my neighbor's front door. (*sigh*) I know it sounds like I'm in the worst possible situation...at least, it kinda does to me...but I guess I'm hoping to find that magic intersection between lowest cost and best performance. Like everyone else! However, I have my doubts that I will find anything close to magic...in fact, I find myself thinking that I'm really just looking for someone to convince me that it's okay to go against my intuition.

I've used my shop vac to collect chips from the DJ-20 and from the lunchbox planer. It's mediocre at best in both instances. I dream of a shop that collects all those chips without my having to do anything, and also doesn't blow dust everywhere. I also dream of winning the lottery, and I suspect both dreams fall into the same category. Especially since I won't play the lottery.

At the moment, I'm hoping to find a good DC through CL or something similar, offsetting the cost of electrical. Then I'll get 220V dropped into the garage to run the DJ-20 as well. I figure I have a couple of weeks, at least, while I try to unload the aircraft. :/


Thanks for your thoughts,

daniel

[Alan Schaffter]

Daniel, you are still pretty much talking about "chip collection" not total dust collection which includes a large amount of very fine dust, much of which you can't see. The goal should be to collect that stuff at the machine before it can escape into the air. Remember dust comes from all machine openings not just from the dust port in the back! To do that requires CFM- more than provided by a shopvac with a Dust Right trashcan separator or the Dust Right wall-mounted blower. That thing "claims" 3/4 hp - which based on the size of the blower, is not enough to draw anywhere near 650 CFM, especially at the end of 10' of rigig duct or flex hose! The filter bag is only rated at 30 microns- the bad dust is .5 - 10 microns- many would call that bag a "dust pump". Go to Bill Pentz's website to learn about dust collection and to see what is considered minimum CFM for each machine. I realize you can only do what you can afford and must make compromises, but don't fool yourself and don't believe half of manufacturer/vendor hype. You can pay now or pay later are obviously trying to build a nice stable of machines and have spent spent a good amount of money on them. Consider dust collection as another machine- don't go cheap.

[daniel lane]

Thanks, Alan. Perhaps I need to clarify - I used the shopvac/cyclone example as the equipment requiring highest air flow. If I can find something that will work for those pieces of equipment, I'm pretty sure the rest will fall into place - especially since we're talking no more than 10 feet to any piece of equipment, so air losses through the hose should be minimal (compared to larger shops). In my head, it's assumed that whatever I use will have a 1 micron bag/filter or better, so the issue is finding the equipment that will fit and provide flow.

I think we're on the same page re: the Dust Right. My last indicated a hope that it would work, but belief that it probably won't. It's just that it's the right size and power requirement to fit into the existing garage. Why doesn't someone make a 1-1.5HP version! [Note to self: Research building one from parts, might be a better fit for the tiny shop.] I would love to hear anecdotal evidence from anyone on this forum that's actually used the Dust Right, but everything I've read and experienced over the last 20 years of woodworking tells me that a 3/4hp DC isn't worth it for the kind of equipment I have. Like I said before - I think I was just hoping someone could convince me to go against my intuition.

So, at this point, I have to find the smallest footprint dust collector that uses 1 micron bags and has a real life 600 CFM air flow. Guess it's back to the drawing board, both figuratively and literally - I'm going to see if I can't piece something together that will work. Or see if I can find a two stage collector on the used market.


Regards,

daniel