Calling all Jointer-planer combo wizards. (Hammer to be exact)

[Kevin Jenness]

Working with Felder is your best bet, but if the tables are machined out of spec an on site tech visit will not remedy the problem. I would suggest investing in an accurate ( +/- .001" over its length) straightedge as long as your jointer, a set of feeler gauges and a pack of brass shim stock. A dial indicator and a digital caliper would also be helpful. This will not be inexpensive, but will cost little more than the tech and be useful in the future. This will allow you to assess the flatness of the tables and get them into alignment using patience, logic and more patience. Jointers are simple machines and can give very accurate results if set up correctly, but minor misalignments can have serious effects. When I say minor I am talking about a few thousandths over the length of the tables. You can't measure that without precise instruments. If the tables are not flat within the manufacturer's specs, then you have a warranty issue. If they are, you should be able to get them coplanar using the above tools and the adjustments built into the table supports. Keep in mind that as rigid as the tables seem, they can be twisted in and out of plane with surprising ease. Use the straightedge and feeler gauges from corner to corner as well as along the tables' length. Good luck.

[Matt Kestenbaum]

Not to beat a dead horse...but I just want clarify a few things. I am in no way saying that Tyler doesn't have the right to expect the tool to live up to its potential quickly. And if there were an error on Hammer/Felder Group's part they should (and I'm confident would) make it right.

My course of action is not for everyone...and in my case not for every tool I've bought! I only put it out there cause I know what's it feels like to have a machine you craved, coveted, studied, shopped, ogled and finally bought not work exactly like it should.

I knew that moving the tool from Austria to New Jersey might mean some checking, tuning and adjustments...every tool does! Even a brand new chisel or plane from LN or LV comes with paper that says it's good to go, but is better with a final honing. And my decision to lower it by gantry crane into a basement shop wasn't going to help. I am sure I could have commissioned my machine myself--with feeler gauges, dial indicator mounted in oneway gauge and a 4ft machinists straight edge. AND lots of patience while sitting on a milk crate (or on my knees) squinting.

In MY CASE (and only my case), it was a combination of unfamiliarity with the intimate particulars of this machine's design and engineering -- it's not anything like the grizzly delta knock-off that I took apart and put back together regularly for a few years. And I was a little bit already feeling like I was spoiling myself by buying it!, but I was worried I wouldn't get it right.

Call me a sissy if you want...go ahead! But, with the owners manual in one hand and the feeler gauges in the other I looked at the machine and decided to put them both down and pick up the phone with one hand and reach for the Amex with the other. I traded a full day of tedium for some cash. And as a side benefit to saving my back, eyes, and time I got a huge piece of mind knowing it was perfect. And if It is ever not perfect I'll recognize the difference.

.

[Tyler Keniston]

I hear ya Matt. I think it is a sound decision to do what you did. The fact that the service is offered and subsequently utilized is awesome.
I'm young and without much cash, having spent most my savings to get the shop up and running.

The idea of investing in the tools and time to gain knowledge and skills that will serve me further down the road (and perhaps save me money down the road too) is of most interest to me at this time. I do already have the instruments Kevin spoke of (precision straight edge, feeler gauges, dial indicator, calipers) and have been utilizing them throughout this tuning process. Working on the patience

I've made contact with Felder. Apparently the literature that states the table should not be twisted onto the temple bolts is based more for the higher end Felder and F-4 machines. So said one of the techs at least. I was essentially told that my issue stems from the fact that my machine is the Hammer make (i.e. low end) because the chassis is not wide enough to easily support the table and adjustments will be finicky. I guess I'll be intentionally building a twist into my infeed table. I think part of the difficulty communicating with the people at Felder is that the information needs to be sorted through seeing as they work on a range of varying quality machines with some inherent differences. There is still no literature that diagrams or speaks of hinge side adjustments for the new generation of the a3-31 (a drastically different hinge mechanism then the old style).

[Tyler Keniston]

but if the tables are machined out of spec an on site tech visit will not remedy the problem.

That is honestly another concern of mine. I'm not 100% convinced that my tables are within spec, but its surprisingly difficult to find the info on what exactly their specs are (specifically how they're measured). If my tables are truly within spec, I have to say its not the flatness I expected. I'll hopefully get my machine performing to its best, but I'm starting to think that as soon as I get a bigger shop space and the income to support some tool upgrades, I'll be getting separate jointer planer units. Perhaps I expect too much (and I'm not trying to trash on the Hammer product, maybe I'll end up loving it) but I do like things to be precise, and separate units is probably my best bet for achieving that.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Tyler, my CF741 was assembled stateside from several demo machines, at my request, to speed up delivery. I had to talk to tech about adjusting the table to the machine, as it had never been mounted. Tech was easily able to walk me through that via a simple phone call. Adjusting your J/P is far easier probably, if you want to do it yourself, you can with their help.

I'm only posting again because you mentioned accuracy, and expectations. Any machine should be judged by its actual work. Measure the results, not some possibly irrelevant single aspect of it. Don't let a possibly incorrect assumption about the importance of some piece of one cloud your ability to objectively judge the results. Stands for any machine, Felder, Griz, Sawstop, makes no difference.

[Kevin Jenness]

Just out of curiosity, how flat are your jointer tables and how did you measure that? Also, as Steve suggests, are the results you are getting unacceptable? I would expect to be able to joint two boards of the same thickness as long as the outfeed table, anywhere across the width of the tables, and have a flawless seam in at least one sweet spot in the width and no more than .010" gap between the boards running them anywhere else. This would be after setting the knives parallel to the outfeed table +/- .001" and setting the outfeed table even to top dead center of the cutting circle or no more than 001" lower. There should be no detectable snipe at the end of the cut. If I can't get that close with the two boards, I look at the sharpness of the knives, very minor adjustments in the outfeed table height,, the flatness and coplanarity of the tables and the stability of the table support. If I can't get a consistently accurate result with a couple of 1x4's 3' long on a 6' long machine, something is wrong with my technique, the way the machine is set up, or the machining or stiffness of the tables.

I hope I don't come across as completely obsessive. I judge the machines I work with by the results I can get from them, and in the case of jointers the results can vary considerably depending on minute adjustments. I like to have glue joints that don't require excessive force to bring together, and I can get that result on four different jointers that I work with regularly. If you can't do that with your machine with phone support, perhaps a "commissioning" visit is in order. If the factory tech can't make it work acceptably, make him explain why and lay that on the sales force to make it right.

[Curt Harms]

Tyler, my CF741 was assembled stateside from several demo machines, at my request, to speed up delivery. I had to talk to tech about adjusting the table to the machine, as it had never been mounted. Tech was easily able to walk me through that via a simple phone call. Adjusting your J/P is far easier probably, if you want to do it yourself, you can with their help.

I'm only posting again because you mentioned accuracy, and expectations. Any machine should be judged by its actual work. Measure the results, not some possibly irrelevant single aspect of it. Don't let a possibly incorrect assumption about the importance of some piece of one cloud your ability to objectively judge the results. Stands for any machine, Felder, Griz, Sawstop, makes no difference.

Likes this post.

[greg hallquist]

Tyler,

I share your pain, but there is hope!
I have an A3-31 I bought used from a guy who had it set up incorrectly. After getting it moved and set up in my shop, it simply didn't joint or plane correctly, so I went to the guys at Felder in Delaware who were great to deal with. The outfeed and indeed were not on the same plane, and I for the life of me could not figure it out after wasting hours trying to fix it.
They offered me a fee to come and diligently sent up my machine - like $200, and given the frustration level I was at, I seriously considered it.
I played with the mushroom bolts and to no avail. While the sales guy (Geoffrey Doubet) was more than happy to oblige me and send me a service rep for the fee, he suggested that I speak with the service guy first (can't remember his name, but Geoff could tell you) and see if I could get it sorted out.
Well, after a minute on the phone with him, I was inspired - he said this is not uncommon - after transport of a used machine. He asked if i had a "One way dial indicator" - What's that? So i went and got one at Woodcraft and Voila! - It measured the table relative to the cutter head at the indeed and outfeed tables so I could get that by playing with the bolts. Also need a long and accurate straightedge - 48", so I got that too. Getting both tables adjusted to the cutterhead and parallel to each other required small adjustments and measuring with both tools til after 30 minutes I had it!
Adjust for parallel - measure and adjust for cutter head alignment - measure and adjust for parallel, and so on.....small increments til you "dial in".

It now works beautifully. The machine I was once ready to get rid of is now my reliable workhorse Someone else said it - these are precision machines and once out of alignment, useless. Re-aligning them is not intuitive or easy unless you get some "training".

The guys at Felder USA in DE were fantastic - Geoff and the service guy (wish I remembered his name) - both of whom talked me out of the service call - only as a last resort they said.
I have subsequently bought a K3 Winner 48x48 (used), and love that too. Now looking at a Felder Bandsaw to replace my Laguna 16HD. even though I didn't buy my machines from the DE location or new for that matter, they are always there for me.

Anyway, please send me a PM and I will send you my number if you want to give me a buzz and chat and see if I can help you through. I know how frustrating this can be - believe me.

Regards
Greg

[Adrian Radu]

Hello Tyler, this is an old post but might be useful for people reading it to tell us how you went about fixing your Hammer

[Bart Estes]

Hi,
I am new to the group and baffled by my Hammer A3 31. It seems to want to be a good machine, but mine seem to wander in and out of alignment. I paid around $800 for a service call last year (extra charge for transportation time); no joy.
I have adjusted temple bolts and even tried to adjust the infeed hinge.
Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Bart

[Tanner Hawey]

Hi,
I am new to the group and baffled by my Hammer A3 31. It seems to want to be a good machine, but mine seem to wander in and out of alignment. I paid around $800 for a service call last year (extra charge for transportation time); no joy.
I have adjusted temple bolts and even tried to adjust the infeed hinge.
Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Bart

Did you ever get your machine sorted out? I'm struggling getting my infeed table to be coplanar with he outfeed. The back corner on the infeed table seems to be the one point I can't get any movement on by adjusting the mushroom head bolts.

Have spent a few hours with a straight edge and feeler gauges getting very close on 3 points but that fourth point just won't budge.

[Robyn Horton]

Tanner .. On the infeed table if its the backside side of the table your trying to adjust there are small allen screws that are adjustable once the bolts are loosened , there are nuts locking the bolts that are behind a plate covering them up. These bolts are holding the hinge mount to the planer cabinet body. Only turn the allen screws the slightest bit for a big change though , remember where your wrench was when you started ! …

[Tanner Hawey]

Thanks Robyn, that was the key piece I was missing, appreciate your assistance.