A Set of Saws

[Eric Gracka]

Hello All:

You've all been asked this question before, numerous times, and accordingly I apologize. Times change & so do woodworking tools, in particular saws.
Which saws would you recommend for an aged woodworker (started wood working in 1990, but work & children got the better of me - I am 61 yrs. old). I'm laying out my list what I think is important in regards to saws.

Please add changes/vendors for these saws:

1. Rip (pls, add how many & TPI)
2. X-Cross (pls. add how many & TPI)
3. Panel saw (?)
4. Dovetail or Gent's saw
5. Framing Saw (seems to be the rave)

I, being retired, don't have a good pension. If one, or some of the above could do the job of many, I'd like to know.

Thanks for reading this!

[lowell holmes]

I wouldn't buy all of those saws to start.

I would start with a 5 or 6 point rip saw, an 8 point cross cut saw, though I favor a 10 point cross cut.

Maybe a LV carcass saw.

After a while you will know what you need to fill in with.


I don't know what is available in sharpening services where you are at, but the last time I took handsaws to Circle Saw in Houston, the cost per saw was 5 or six dollars.

This makes buying sound old saws viable.

I would suggest a Popular Woodworking saw bench as a good project to start with.

[Winton Applegate]

Yes I have and like to have many saws. Lots and lots and lots . . .




There are at least as many Japanese saws and several panel saws on the wall above the bench where this photo was taken.

e.g.



I was studying what worked for me and what was out there. Now there are many more high end saws available that I haven't tried.

If you can get somebody to file and tune some old saws then you don't need the high end saws.
But
you may not REALY need even as many saws as you have listed.
This guy, who taught at the Rhode Island School of Design for many, many years and was one of the people WHO STARTED Fine Woodworking magazine . . .
well . . .
he used rip filed saws even for cross cutting.
You might want to study him and see what he has to say.
Here are his books and DVD

http://www.amazon.com/Tage-Teaches-W...ords=tage+frid

http://www.amazon.com/Tage-Frid-Wood...ords=tage+frid

Chances are you can rent the DVD from your local Woodcraft store and I am pretty sure your local Library will have some or all three of his books

I am not a big fan of Frid though he certainly knew his stuff, BIG TIME !
And he could totally get the job done.
Really smart man.

I tend to lean toward Frank Klausz and Ian Kirby from that time period.
But that is just what resinates best with and for me.
Tage Frid (first name pronounced with a silent g) could be just what you need.

I am a fan of cross cut filed saws, for cross cutting, but then I am a wimp.
You may do just fine with just rip filed saws as he did.

Thanks for posting your question.

[Mike Holbrook]

I have both Tage's books and had the pleasure of seeing him at seminars at Highland Woodworking. Tage was a big fan of bowsaws. Finding blades for bowsaws has been a challenge for many years, although there are the Japanese Turbo Cut saw blades which are fairly easy to find these days. Tage dealt with the low quality blades available for his much loved bowsaws by hand filling them with a rip tooth pattern. From watching him actually do it I think he was mostly trying to provide a solution to the dearth of bowsaw blades that might fly with the woodworkers of the day. Not many people used hand tools at that time in history anyway. I suspect Tage felt like he would have been fighting an uphill battle to convince people to hand file multiple patterns on unpopular bowsaw blades or even hand saw blades. In my mind Tage was one of the hand tool advocates, along with Frank Klaus...who we can thank for the renaissance of hand tools. The bowsaw I bought from Highland Hardware (now Highland Woodworking) back then is a joke compared to the saws I bought more recently from Woodjoy Tools and Tools for Working Wood.

The bowsaw is a very versatile saw. It is even relatively easy to make a bowsaw frame from one of the patterns or actual saws that are available today. If I was starting over with handsaws I might spend a little extra time to learn to use a bowsaw to save money and saw space. It is very easy to change blades on a bowsaw and they are arguably a more versatile saw to start with. I think a set of three bowsaws with a couple blades each could do most of the work done by all the hand saws, panel saws, backsaws....combined. Bowsaws are also arguably easier to use on a standard workbench while conventional thought suggests construction of a special bench for hand saws.

[Brian Holcombe]

Winton, your collection is spectacular!

eric, this very much depends on what you build! If you have machine tools for long rips than you could make due with a set of crosscut and rip carcass saws. If you do not, then I would add a set of panel saws. If you build big joinery on top of that I would add a large tenon saw. If you cut curves by hand, or dream if doing so, then add a bowsaw. For flush cuts add a Japanese flush cut saw.

i know myself well enough to know that if I yearn for a tool, eventually I will buy it. so often times the path of least resistance is the one to take.

[Steve Friedman]

Eric,

I agree that it depends on what you want to be doing with the saws.

If you're going to use handsaws to break down large pieces, you need two full size handsaws - one rip (around 5 - 6 PPI) and one crosscut (around 7 - 9 PPI). I like fewer PPI for saws to break down lumber. If you're using smaller stock, panel saws would be fine - maybe 7 PPI rip and 8 - 10 PPI crosscut. I wouldn't consider anything for these other than vintage saws because you want a tapered blade. My personal favorites are the pre-WWI Disston D7. If you've never sharpened before, I would send them out to be sharpened for the first time to see what they're supposed to look like when done properly.

For joinery saws, you can't beat the price and performance of the Lee Valley Veritas Molded Spine saws. Ready to use out of the box. I have the pair of carcass saws and reach for them more often than any of my vintage ones.

I'm not a big fan of Gent's saws, but if you're going to do dovetails, the Lee Valley product is certainly priced right.

Large tenon saws are nice if your joinery is oversized, but otherwise they get little use.

Not sure what you mean by a framing saw. If you're thinking of a wooden frame with the blade in the middle that's used to re-saw large boards, you probably need to make one for yourself. Resawing by hand is hard work. If you're referring to a wooden frame saw with the blade along one end, you can build one of those as well. I'm not sure it would be one of my first saws.

As as been mentioned, you may want to consider a Japanese saw or two. I have a Kataba (no spine) and use it all the time. They can be had pretty cheaply and most come with replaceable blades.

Hope that helps.

Steve

[Mike Holbrook]

Right Brian, chances are my saw collection want get any smaller either. Still, one has to start somewhere and I think a set of three bowasws ( Gramercy 12" turning saw, Woodjoy 400 & 600 mm saws, or home made equivalents ) would provide a new woodworker with an answer for most turning, crosscutting or ripping needs with just the three saws and some extra blades. Then one might build a larger saw set at a more leisurely pace.

[Jim Matthews]

Google Ron Herman on saws.

Have a good look at what he's using.
* Hint * They're not the pricey, flashy tools...

One good backsaw and one properly sharpened panel saw will take you far.

Unless you're doing lots of crosscutting, a progressively filed rip saw can handle most tasks.

[Winton Applegate]

I came up against that fence too.

As they say in the Simon Pegg and Nick Frost movies
"What's the matter . . . never taken a short cut before ?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCzaH0kNzWg

YMMV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWiD4_-AMKI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNQW3yNCoeA

Found the solution (I would think Tage would have done the same. Surprised he didn't).

[Eric Gracka]

I have both Tage's books and had the pleasure of seeing him at seminars at Highland Woodworking. Tage was a big fan of bowsaws. Finding blades for bowsaws has been a challenge for many years, although there are the Japanese Turbo Cut saw blades which are fairly easy to find these days. Tage dealt with the low quality blades available for his much loved bowsaws by hand filling them with a rip tooth pattern. From watching him actually do it I think he was mostly trying to provide a solution to the dearth of bowsaw blades that might fly with the woodworkers of the day. Not many people used hand tools at that time in history anyway. I suspect Tage felt like he would have been fighting an uphill battle to convince people to hand file multiple patterns on unpopular bowsaw blades or even hand saw blades. In my mind Tage was one of the hand tool advocates, along with Frank Klaus...who we can thank for the renaissance of hand tools. The bowsaw I bought from Highland Hardware (now Highland Woodworking) back then is a joke compared to the saws I bought more recently from Woodjoy Tools and Tools for Working Wood.

The bowsaw is a very versatile saw. It is even relatively easy to make a bowsaw frame from one of the patterns or actual saws that are available today. If I was starting over with handsaws I might spend a little extra time to learn to use a bowsaw to save money and saw space. It is very easy to change blades on a bowsaw and they are arguably a more versatile saw to start with. I think a set of three bowsaws with a couple blades each could do most of the work done by all the hand saws, panel saws, backsaws....combined. Bowsaws are also arguably easier to use on a standard workbench while conventional thought suggests construction of a special bench for hand saws.

Hi Mike: I am very intrigued with your post. You seem to be one of the very few people who don't slam the bow (frame) saws. Just from looking at the two major vendors (ECE and Ulmia), they not only seem to be a piece of art, but more importantly, they appear to perform almost all functions.

I really would like one to do most of the things multiple saws do. In particular, I would like to rip, X-Cut, and do large dovetails. Can a bow saw do this?

Which saw do you have, and which blades do you recommend?

[Eric Gracka]

Google Ron Herman on saws.

Have a good look at what he's using.
* Hint * They're not the pricey, flashy tools...

One good backsaw and one properly sharpened panel saw will take you far.

Unless you're doing lots of crosscutting, a progressively filed rip saw can handle most tasks.

Hi Jim: And what would those saws be (names & TPI pls.)? From what little I've read (in ignorance), a bow (frame) saw is much more versatile as a starter, and perhaps a "do most of it" for an unsophisticated woodworker (which I am).

[Eric Gracka]

Google Ron Herman on saws.

Have a good look at what he's using.
* Hint * They're not the pricey, flashy tools...

One good backsaw and one properly sharpened panel saw will take you far.

Unless you're doing lots of crosscutting, a progressively filed rip saw can handle most tasks.

Jim: I've read so many ways to file a rip saw that I'm confused. They say joint it (easy enough), but how do you joint a saw that is set, without pounding the teeth flat again, otherwise one side gets a bevel? Then they say to file the cutting teeth at different angles, (depending which site you read). 52 degrees seems to be the norm. Then file the back teeth (8 degrees seems to be the norm). Then someone comes along and says do a progressive file and file a deeper gullet, not the gullet that normally occurs when you file the cutting teeth. There is no mention of set (maybe if you look hard enough), and where to place the set tool (I presume the set is 1/2 the thickness of the blade, but is that on both sides).

And most of these sites say filing a saw is easy. So is vector and tensor calculus (forgotten most of it now, and don't want to remember), when you've had two courses in it like me.

Any quick guide, or site.

I'd really hate to ask about X-cut filing.

[lowell holmes]

Eric,

Popular Woodworking has a video with Matt Cianci. It is titled "Supertuning a Handsaw" and another "Herman Handsaw".

I suggest you view the Cianci video and get one saw to get started. You are overthinking this.

[Jim Matthews]

It's a really simple tool, the handsaw.

If you make more teeth sharper, it's difficult to make a poorly tuned saw perform worse.
The more even the teeth in shape, size and sharpness - the better.

If you can get them evenly turned out to either side, the saw will cut straighter.

Like Lowell said, avoid complicating this.

FYI - I have a bowsaw that I use on rare occasion, but it's not my first choice for basic tasks.
Sharpening a bowsaw blade is done in much the same manner as other Western style saws.

[Eric Gracka]

Eric,

Popular Woodworking has a video with Matt Cianci. It is titled "Supertuning a Handsaw" and another "Herman Handsaw".

I suggest you view the Cianci video and get one saw to get started. You are overthinking this.

Thanks Lowell - I think I read too much.